the joy of technology

Discuss model railway topics and news that do not fit into other sections.
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Mountain
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Re: the joy of technology

Post by Mountain »

Bigmet wrote: Mon Jul 14, 2025 10:22 am
I am not agin technology per se, but only want it on my own terms...
That is my position entirely. Some love exploring new technology and what it can do. While technology has moved on a bit more intense hobby since I dropped out of the crest of the technological wave as the tsunami hit the shore, but I realized that it was the older technology I missed so I went back to what I loved and where I left off.

Now where the fear about new technology comes in is where whatever subject one has, is not that new technology is progressing. It can progress all it likes! The issue is where one is forced to use it against ones will to the point where it brings un-neccesary stress.
My point is that "Why shouldn't I use the technology I feel safer with using? Why is it purposefully being made obsolete where there is nothing wrong with running older methods next to newer technology at the same time".
An example is that certain government organizations now only do online forms. Why? I never can answer yes or no as I have always tended to fit somewhere inbetween in many situations, and paper forms I can add bits to explain why I can't answer yes or a no. Government forms give threats of legal action if one tells a lie. If I answer yes or no when I can't answer truthfully a yes or a no as I fit somewhere in the middle, I would be living to answer yes or no. YET THE STUPID ONLINE FORMS WILL NOT LET ME LEAVE THE QUESTIONS BLANK so I need others to fill out forms for me. I am not lacking in I.Q. I just can't do online forms like this.

In the 1980's I did Computer Studies, and part of this was to create programs like these government forms and we would have our work scrutinized by the computer studies teacher picking holes in our programming, and one key element she drummed into us time and time again when it came to designing online forms was that we had to think of all eventualities foe every question, so if the answer could only have a yes or no answer we would have a yes or no box to click. If the question could not be answered yes or no for all the possible people who would use it, we would have to add an additional area where users would be able to enter text. Most of todays online government forms I have come across would fail if we had designed them and we would not have passed our exams. (And we are talking the basic 0 level which had just turned into GCSE exams type of level as the logic we had to apply to the programs design was very basic stuff).

But I can give so many other levels to this. Example. Why can't we use landlines as well as modern Internet systems. Why are we forced to abandon our little phones and forced onto a smart phone as they are turning the 2 and 3G networks off. Why? Why not use 2G, 3G, 4G and 5G together? They don't interfere with each other as they are on different frequencies. The only harmful one is 5G because it resonates close to the frequencies the human body uses and also animals, birds and fish use which is why in the past 5G was never used with the exception of mind control projects to try and effect ones enemies. The BIG issue here is A.I. is telling those in athority how to progress in technology and A.I. has no regard to human life and wellbeing. At upper levels in military and government, AI has been used for quite a while now to make decisions based on its ability to predict future results. The problem is A.I. is NOT human, BUT it has learned how to lie to get results.
Technology is supposed to be here to help us and not enslave us..

Back to our own hobby. The ONLY part of the hobby I would not do is use a train controller which is directly linked to the internet. Why? When I run my trains, no one else should know unless I tell them or they are with me.
Going back o the days of the earlier Playstations, I when PS3 came in, I bought myself a PS2 as they had come right down in price. Now of the many games I bought (Mostly secondhand at cheap prices), a few could be played online via a lead to ones router. Not many games, but a few. One was Delta Force Black Hawk Down which I enjoyed playing with members around the world and I bought a headset to talk to people. We had fun! :D
Now fast forward a few years and I was going through the slimline PS2 settings and I found that to my surprize, the game system had not only logged date and time of every single online game I had ever played, but also had logged the date and time of every single game I had ever played, and how long I was playing them each time I played etc, which as I had played online with it, it had shared all this information with the game system manufacturers! I had never agreed to this and this was the old PlayStation 2. (I would not have minded quite so much if it ONLY took the information when I played games online, but this was every single game and the online gaming was probably only 5 or 10% of my total gaming use when I had it.
Now my concern is if modern DCC systems should go down this route without there being the choice to buy a system that does not do this. It is when manufacturers decide the benefits of taking over the private information to their advantage so they stop selling systems that they can't do this with, so people are forced to go down this route is what I am against, as it should always be the customers choice.
Last edited by Mountain on Mon Jul 14, 2025 10:45 pm, edited 8 times in total.
Phred
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Re: the joy of technology

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Government forms are designed to be stoopid because they don't want you to complete them. They want you to give up in frustration so that they don't have to part with any money.
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Mountain
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Re: the joy of technology

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Phred wrote: Mon Jul 14, 2025 10:17 pm Government forms are designed to be stoopid because they don't want you to complete them. They want you to give up in frustration so that they don't have to part with any money.
Haha.
I could not believe forms that had to be filled in by a certain date as it made no sense. (One set of forms had a time limit and citizens advice appointment waiting times (For help to fill out the forms) were a week or two later than the time limit given to fill them in. To be fair, they did say to let them know if one needed more timel.
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centenary
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Re: the joy of technology

Post by centenary »

Mountain wrote: Mon Jul 14, 2025 9:16 pm
centenary wrote: Mon Jul 14, 2025 12:41 pm I can well imagine in the early days of DCC, changing cvs was maybe a bit of a phaff \ faff(?).

But things have moved on enormously even in the last few years. There are a host of apps that make changing cvs a breeze, from JMRI \ Decoder Pro to proprietry apps such as Loksound programmer and even Hornby's TM7000.

Things have moved on. IMHO it tends to be people who dont want to move on with the changing tech that tend to create their own, er, issues while hanging on to rose tinted glasses view of older tech. Wifey is a prime example :D

Changing CV settings wasn't the problem. It was more that "I" couldn't leave things alone! If it was there as a setting I would adjust it, and then adjust it again and again and again as I also altered other adjustments...
With simple DC, there are no CV's to alter so I just wire it up and off I go!
One of my neighbours is getting back into the hobby, partly because he found out I was building a layout in the garage and partly because he wants to share interest \ time with his grandson.

He was into DC running. Simple plug in and go. But when he saw (and heard) a couple of my dcc sound equipped locos, he was taken aback by the difference in enjoyment of running the locos on dcc compared to his dc stuff. His main delight being the locos ran far better (his words) at slower speed on dcc.

But I know what you mean about always changing cvs. When we had 'advanced' weather compensation activated on the boiler, I was forever twiddly the thermostat to see what difference the tweaks made to the temperature! :o
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Mountain
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Re: the joy of technology

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centenary wrote: Tue Jul 15, 2025 12:36 am
Mountain wrote: Mon Jul 14, 2025 9:16 pm
centenary wrote: Mon Jul 14, 2025 12:41 pm I can well imagine in the early days of DCC, changing cvs was maybe a bit of a phaff \ faff(?).

But things have moved on enormously even in the last few years. There are a host of apps that make changing cvs a breeze, from JMRI \ Decoder Pro to proprietry apps such as Loksound programmer and even Hornby's TM7000.

Things have moved on. IMHO it tends to be people who dont want to move on with the changing tech that tend to create their own, er, issues while hanging on to rose tinted glasses view of older tech. Wifey is a prime example :D

Changing CV settings wasn't the problem. It was more that "I" couldn't leave things alone! If it was there as a setting I would adjust it, and then adjust it again and again and again as I also altered other adjustments...
With simple DC, there are no CV's to alter so I just wire it up and off I go!
One of my neighbours is getting back into the hobby, partly because he found out I was building a layout in the garage and partly because he wants to share interest \ time with his grandson.

He was into DC running. Simple plug in and go. But when he saw (and heard) a couple of my dcc sound equipped locos, he was taken aback by the difference in enjoyment of running the locos on dcc compared to his dc stuff. His main delight being the locos ran far better (his words) at slower speed on dcc.

But I know what you mean about always changing cvs. When we had 'advanced' weather compensation activated on the boiler, I was forever twiddly the thermostat to see what difference the tweaks made to the temperature! :o
Why I avoid fitting cycle computers to my bikes. :D
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Re: the joy of technology

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place I worked had people constantly moaning the office was too hot, or too cold, people forever whining

facilities bod added a thermostat controller by a door and said we could sort it out ourselves

some bickering over who got to set it but quickly all was quiet


the fact the thermostat wasn't connected to anything didn't seem to matter
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Mountain
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Re: the joy of technology

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aleopardstail wrote: Tue Jul 15, 2025 3:48 pm place I worked had people constantly moaning the office was too hot, or too cold, people forever whining

facilities bod added a thermostat controller by a door and said we could sort it out ourselves

some bickering over who got to set it but quickly all was quiet


the fact the thermostat wasn't connected to anything didn't seem to matter
That is amusing! :D
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centenary
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Re: the joy of technology

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aleopardstail wrote: Tue Jul 15, 2025 3:48 pm place I worked had people constantly moaning the office was too hot, or too cold, people forever whining

facilities bod added a thermostat controller by a door and said we could sort it out ourselves

some bickering over who got to set it but quickly all was quiet


the fact the thermostat wasn't connected to anything didn't seem to matter
Reminds me of my old civil service days where 'seniority' determined who sat next to the window and controlled when it was open (or not as the case may be). Weather and temperature were not the deciding factor!
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Re: the joy of technology

Post by aleopardstail »

centenary wrote: Tue Jul 15, 2025 5:39 pm
aleopardstail wrote: Tue Jul 15, 2025 3:48 pm place I worked had people constantly moaning the office was too hot, or too cold, people forever whining

facilities bod added a thermostat controller by a door and said we could sort it out ourselves

some bickering over who got to set it but quickly all was quiet


the fact the thermostat wasn't connected to anything didn't seem to matter
Reminds me of my old civil service days where 'seniority' determined who sat next to the window and controlled when it was open (or not as the case may be). Weather and temperature were not the deciding factor!
plenty of offices are still like that, rank determines proximity to the windows

one place I was at we had an office move, the office manager in charge called me over and apologised, said the placement I got wasn't for me, but my immediate manager

highest traffic through bit, right under the air con
Bigmet
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Re: the joy of technology

Post by Bigmet »

Mountain wrote: Mon Jul 14, 2025 9:16 pm ...Changing CV settings wasn't the problem. It was more that "I" couldn't leave things alone! If it was there as a setting I would adjust it, and then adjust it again and again and again as I also altered other adjustments...
Here process discipline is required. Achieve the required performance standard, and never touch it again. I have models now 20 years with a decoder installed, with the set-up unchanged since. I learned this in industrial process control, steadily 'moving away' well qualified people who didn't understand that their job was to enforce the 'no fiddling adjustments, because you 'feel' it would be better' rule ; changes to be data driven alone, at process reviews at statistically valid operational intervals. Result, stable and efficient production, which some found 'boring', which I considered very revealing.

aleopardstail wrote: Tue Jul 15, 2025 10:48 pm ...plenty of offices are still like that, rank determines proximity to the windows. one place I was at we had an office move, the office manager in charge called me over and apologised, said the placement I got wasn't for me, but my immediate manager. highest traffic through bit, right under the air con.
Regular problem, endless discontent. And then we got a new 'Human Remains' director who could make the 'no fiddling adjustments' principle work with people. She was a psychologist and seemingly able to quickly work out what made people tick. As she told me: I can be frank with you because you are a machine, solely here to get the work done, and as long as your office space is functional you don't care about anything else. And then went on: 'Dr X is very proud of his educational background and must have an office door with his full qualifications on it'. 'Mrs Y needs a car parking space which always allows the most rapid exit to get to the day nursery of her children.' 'Mr Z needs a work station that looks like a flight deck, to emphasise the range of his technological grasp.' Don't ask me how, but within a week with our 200 strong unit she had the transformation to 'peace in our time' recognisably underway, with what she termed 'occupational hygiene'. Of course, she was head-hunted and went to the U.N. ; and the little paradise she had created slowly slipped back into the standard mire of unresolved conflicts...
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Mountain
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Re: the joy of technology

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Bigmet wrote: Wed Jul 16, 2025 11:14 am
Mountain wrote: Mon Jul 14, 2025 9:16 pm ...Changing CV settings wasn't the problem. It was more that "I" couldn't leave things alone! If it was there as a setting I would adjust it, and then adjust it again and again and again as I also altered other adjustments...
Here process discipline is required. Achieve the required performance standard, and never touch it again. I have models now 20 years with a decoder installed, with the set-up unchanged since. I learned this in industrial process control, steadily 'moving away' well qualified people who didn't understand that their job was to enforce the 'no fiddling adjustments, because you 'feel' it would be better' rule ; changes to be data driven alone, at process reviews at statistically valid operational intervals. Result, stable and efficient production, which some found 'boring', which I considered very revealing.

aleopardstail wrote: Tue Jul 15, 2025 10:48 pm ...plenty of offices are still like that, rank determines proximity to the windows. one place I was at we had an office move, the office manager in charge called me over and apologised, said the placement I got wasn't for me, but my immediate manager. highest traffic through bit, right under the air con.
Regular problem, endless discontent. And then we got a new 'Human Remains' director who could make the 'no fiddling adjustments' principle work with people. She was a psychologist and seemingly able to quickly work out what made people tick. As she told me: I can be frank with you because you are a machine, solely here to get the work done, and as long as your office space is functional you don't care about anything else. And then went on: 'Dr X is very proud of his educational background and must have an office door with his full qualifications on it'. 'Mrs Y needs a car parking space which always allows the most rapid exit to get to the day nursery of her children.' 'Mr Z needs a work station that looks like a flight deck, to emphasise the range of his technological grasp.' Don't ask me how, but within a week with our 200 strong unit she had the transformation to 'peace in our time' recognisably underway, with what she termed 'occupational hygiene'. Of course, she was head-hunted and went to the U.N. ; and the little paradise she had created slowly slipped back into the standard mire of unresolved conflicts...
Most of my decoders were hard wired in. Not designed for any specific type of loco motor.

I would adjust them and if it was a complete disaster one could easily go back to the factory default settings.

The only locos I had issues with which I had assumed it was the decoders playing up, were with older ones that worked fine on DC, b
Ut add a DCC decoder and the would run up to speed and then do a sudden stop, and then repeat the process. I asked on one of these sites as I had tried more than one decoder. It was more that a very brief interuption of current will start any inertia settings off again as if the loco was starting off from a start. On DC these brief interruptions of current are quite honestly not even noticeable but DCC notices!
The solution was recommended by others to set the inertia and back EMF to zero, or its lowest figure so in effect one is turning these features off, and after doing this, the effected locos ran superbly like the did on DC.
It was only the odd few locos, but remember this DCC users! One does not need "Stay alive". One needs to run off the inertia, and if that does not work, turn off the back EMF. Once they are turned off, they will run like any other loco! Modern all wheel pick-up locos will not need these turning off but in general, the more pick-ups the loco has, the more drag so the more work the motor has to do to pull a train. Some designs have pickups on their pinpoint axles and this design has very little drag at all, but wiper pick-ups... Although wiper pick-ups are probably the best kind, they also add the most friction.
I do a lot of tinkering with the budget little Hornby 0-4-0's at times, and both the older ones and the modern ones use wiper pick-ups hidden behind their wheels. I noticed they run a lot better at slow speed with the latest type (Which I am not sure if they are still making them?), and after disassembling the newer type I found out why. Their pick-ups are made to a much lighter thinner bits of metal so the loco has far less friction to the wheels. Is not all a plus side as I would imagine the newer pick-ups would not last so many years as the older ones do, but they do last way more than double the amount of hours Hornby claimed they did... Actually not just double, but people have said double that again and the are still on the rails going strong and outlasted many a more expensive model, so there is no fear about the thinner pick-ups or the modern motor brushes which are not designed to be replaced wearing out, as they would probably outlast what we would ever need from them!
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