the joy of technology

[aleopardstail]

one for all those with a proper layout, you know old school DC stuff, maybe wire in tube points, maybe solonoid stuff

you know stuff that just works

Tried to fire up Leopard Street earlier, nothing fancy just wanted to play trains for a bit.

on

hmm.. few boards taking an age to fire up, the PC also not connecting to it, talks to the MQTT server ok, sending messages to change points gets the desired response eventually..

JMRI "cannot connect" to the layout

few reboots later and its connected but not actually responsive, seems it connects then shuts down..

source: WiFi router is overheating...

just think, if all this was old school I'd be happily playing trains right now.. instead of upstairs with a cold beer..

[centenary]

one for all those with a proper layout, you know old school DC stuff, maybe wire in tube points, maybe solonoid stuff

you know stuff that just works

Tried to fire up Leopard Street earlier, nothing fancy just wanted to play trains for a bit.

on

hmm.. few boards taking an age to fire up, the PC also not connecting to it, talks to the MQTT server ok, sending messages to change points gets the desired response eventually..

JMRI "cannot connect" to the layout

few reboots later and its connected but not actually responsive, seems it connects then shuts down..

source: WiFi router is overheating...

just think, if all this was old school I'd be happily playing trains right now.. instead of upstairs with a cold beer..

It's like Scotty said, the more complicated things are, the easier it is to make them stop working!

That said, I know we're in a heat wave atm but, is it a tired old router? It was 29 degress in ours yesterday and no issues with the VM hub.

Yesterday, I spent all afternoon making a jig to cut out the turntable well. Kind of went ok then suddenly the jigsaw stopped cutting. Took a minute of so for me to work out the blade had come out of the jigsaw which was just happily hammering the blade into the wood! Then when Id nearly cut 3/4 of the circle, the blade bent so my final cut out was more oval than round.

These things are sent to try us, no doubt.

[aleopardstail]

one for all those with a proper layout, you know old school DC stuff, maybe wire in tube points, maybe solonoid stuff

you know stuff that just works

Tried to fire up Leopard Street earlier, nothing fancy just wanted to play trains for a bit.

on

hmm.. few boards taking an age to fire up, the PC also not connecting to it, talks to the MQTT server ok, sending messages to change points gets the desired response eventually..

JMRI "cannot connect" to the layout

few reboots later and its connected but not actually responsive, seems it connects then shuts down..

source: WiFi router is overheating...

just think, if all this was old school I'd be happily playing trains right now.. instead of upstairs with a cold beer..

It's like Scotty said, the more complicated things are, the easier it is to make them stop working!

That said, I know we're in a heat wave atm but, is it a tired old router? It was 29 degress in ours yesterday and no issues with the VM hub.

Yesterday, I spent all afternoon making a jig to cut out the turntable well. Kind of went ok then suddenly the jigsaw stopped cutting. Took a minute of so for me to work out the blade had come out of the jigsaw which was just happily hammering the blade into the wood! Then when Id nearly cut 3/4 of the circle, the blade bent so my final cut out was more oval than round.

These things are sent to try us, no doubt.

Sky Q router, which is basically utter garbage, rubbish wifi signal against the previous one and only two ethernet ports not four.. both of which are used. it seems to struggle with the heat

and the cold

and the two dozen devices connected..

[Mountain]

Hope no one minds me sharing my thoughts. There is no wrong way other than what works for you... But I can see how the more complex the technology we use, the more there is which could potentially go wrong. Is up to us to decide what level of technology we chose to go for. It is nice to know we have a choice. All I can do is explain my choice

I prefer simpler technology and yet at the same time I sometimes like to explore, hence in the very early to mid '00's I went into DCC in a big way but by the time I hit the latter half of the 00's when DCC sound came in (Which I had to buy a sound loco to try it out), but I found myself spending so much time sidetracked into programming all sorts of variables from speed curves to anything else, that I realized I had done no actual layout building or any actual modelling and had spent hours on things that were quite frankly not needed.
Then when assessing things, while I liked DCC and what it could do, I started actually asking myself what I loved about the hobby and what I was missing out on as I had stalled in my enthusiasm for things.
Well, quite a few things happened as well where I took on 7mmNG instead. I hard wired an N gauge decoder into my first loco which was then running on a standard Hornby 0-4-0 chassis (And nothing wrong with them once one learns how to get them running well, and preferably searching out the slower speed versions which look identical to the others... Though the higher speed ones are good), and I just felt that I was doing a mistake by fitting the decoder in, as I really missed DC.
I also had handed in my notice in my job as I just could not carry on as things were. (Hit with quite a mental burnout). My income had dropped down to zero at the time for quite a prolonged time back then, so DC also offered a more logical approach.
To be honest, only one real area I miss that DCC did well which is possible with DC, but DCC just dis it without thought, and this is the ability to unplug the hand controller, walk down the layout to the other end with the loco carrying on... Plug it back in and take back control. It was seamless ad automatic in that one was instantly back in control as soon as one slightly touched the speed... Of all the things that SCC could do, I didn't miss anything else, as everything else just felt like an un-neccessary gimmick. If anything, I found the massive extra dimension that DCC sound brought actually upped the game so much that no amount of modelling capability that I could achieve matched the realism of having sound. Felt like one immediately noticed the exhaust had no fumes coming from it and one could not smell the diesel engine. Yet without sound, and ones imagination did all that and one didn't even notice!
My point is the more advancements we made in technology the less fun I was finding things to actually be, and the simple pleasures of making things or running the trains were being sidelined and replaced by tedious silly frustrations... (Silly things like having ones DCC system on but having to trace an error with an error code one had not come across before so one had to look it up only to find it was obvious after spending half an hour reading manuals to also find the manual book one needed one had put somewhere else as it was to do with a booster or something one rarely needed to read apart from initial setting up... You get the idea!
With DC, yes there is a lot of wiring to do which is actually not much more than DCC, as one is not stupid enough to try and isolate every single area to a separate isolation switch as there are only one or two areas of a layout where one will ever need to hold one loco while buffering up to another (Similar to real working on the prototype where apart from at depots and permissive stations it was one train absolute maximum in each section at a time which is the actual basis for cab control DC wiring though a section is designed for both making it electrically easier as well as for operation of running the trains).
But logically, so few occasions where more than one train is ever in the same section the actual need for DCC was almost non-existant. Not to say that DCC should not be used if one wants to have it...

But my point is, that once wired, DC is un-complicated and so much easier to trace faults when something goes wrong, so one has half a chance to keep ones hair!

And yes, it has been mentioned simple wire in tube or other manual forms of point control, or simple solenoid via a passing contact switch or better still, a stud and probe which is so simple, effective, quick and easy to use, as is cab control on a proper hand painted display panel that all one does is follow ones line of sight of which track on the panel one wants to use, throw the nice clunky toggle switches so one has power to the track sections from ones controller, dab the probe on the tags or nails or bolt heads (Whatever ones used) that are set into the panel so one can easily dab ones route in seconds, and turn the knob on the controller and one is away! No searching for loco numbers. No any thing else. Just you controlling the train as it trundle past at whatever speed (And direction) one desires! Simple!

So have I abandoned thoughts of DCC altogether? No. If I get to run 00 again I would get my DCC system back out and use that. I also may come across the occasional DCC loco which needs programming... Without a DCC system one can't exactly do that! So for now I have DCC even though my heart is really in DC. And one can go quite complex with DC or go quite simple with DCC as well, so it is not necessarily DC or DCC. It is more about how complicated we make things.... It is fun using ones mind to make technology to work for us, and frustrating when things don't go to plan! (But really rewarding when we fix things and get everything to work as planned!)

But I do love simple things. Getting the happy medium between simple technology without it being so simple it is a bore! (It soon gets boring if I push my loco along with my finger. It works but I want something more! And oddly, I have had lots of fun with a very simple child's battery operated trainset, or winding up clockwork trains and letting them go! But finding the happy medium which brings us joy without too much frustration I believe is the key, as if we can find that, we are onto a good thing!

So yes. Newer technology is lovely. But sometimes, if ones joy is in the older simpler ways to do things, then one can get more joy from following that. But if one loves ones internet based technology and the added dimensions it brings, then go for that! There are no rules other than how one needs to wire or connect things to get whatever one has to work... Just have fun!

[aleopardstail]

Don't mind in the least, have seen a few NG and small industrial layouts on line that are remarkably low tech, but in general look amazing and work

I do have a sound fitted locomotive, very nice she is, I also have rolling stock that makes a noise unless at more sedate speeds - partly why I run more slowly, and a few locomotives that have their own very special sound track that drowns out everything else

its back up and running, not helped by JMRI seeing the "issue" with the wifi and deciding to swap all the throttle defaults over to MQTT...

again...

[Mountain]

I am really glad you have it up and running. A relief!

I think the ultimate control system when it comes to technology is to have the latest gadgetry etc, but then design in an over-ride so one can switch in older or simpler technology if things go wrong. The real railways did this a fair bit when I was working there, especially with signalling systems and also train safety systems which could be over-ridden if a fault occurred but needed a guard to be a second pair of eyes with the driver if the safety devices were bypassed. Many other things could be bypassed and simpler ways to keep things going were used.

In doing this with ones railway one can have the best of both worlds!

[aleopardstail]

I am really glad you have it up and running. A relief!

I think the ultimate control system when it comes to technology is to have the latest gadgetry etc, but then design in an over-ride so one can switch in older or simpler technology if things go wrong. The real railways did this a fair bit when I was working there, especially with signalling systems and also train safety systems which could be over-ridden if a fault occurred but needed a guard to be a second pair of eyes with the driver if the safety devices were bypassed. Many other things could be bypassed and simpler ways to keep things going were used.

In doing this with ones railway one can have the best of both worlds!

it is possible with DCC-EX to have a very basic hand throttle to directly talk to it, not sure I can be bothered to be honest as there is so much more to drive with the points

[Phred]

Don't ask me. I'm still hoping for the return of analogue phones with a round dial on the front.

[Bigmet]

...I'm still hoping for the return of analogue phones with a round dial on the front.

Likewise. I was up to my neck in technology various to earn a crust, and was particularly delighted to drop the phobile mone on retirement, to stop the endless complaints " I couldn't get through to you". No you couldn't, because I only switch it on when I want to use it. Still on a landline here in the UK- actually 'landfibre' - with a couple of ancient cordless handsets; but e-mail is my distant communication method of choice.

I am not agin technology per se, but only want it on my own terms...

[centenary]

I can well imagine in the early days of DCC, changing cvs was maybe a bit of a phaff \ faff(?).

But things have moved on enormously even in the last few years. There are a host of apps that make changing cvs a breeze, from JMRI \ Decoder Pro to proprietry apps such as Loksound programmer and even Hornby's TM7000.

Things have moved on. IMHO it tends to be people who dont want to move on with the changing tech that tend to create their own, er, issues while hanging on to rose tinted glasses view of older tech. Wifey is a prime example

[Bigmet]

I can well imagine in the early days of DCC, changing cvs was maybe a bit of a faff...

For some perhaps, but not for those like me who had a (now half century) past in setting up industrial process control using programmable logic controllers: Allen-Bradley kit was my employer's choice: and this led to the Lenz 100 system, that was my first and still only DCC system purchase. This system felt like a happily nostalgic opportunity, just from my reading of the manual on line - first class documentation is always a good sign of competence - and it was better yet when the product was in my hands: within a week I was pretty much 'unconciously competent' with all the functionality.

That £200 purchase is now in the Pullman Car Company's slogan class: "The quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten".

[aleopardstail]

some of the programming on the main stuff can be very good when it works

specifically adjusting acceleration/braking rates so light locos and heavy rakes can be different, but you really do need automation to get the most from it.

not least because when driving manually to get the right brake/speed up every time

[Bigmet]

some of the programming on the main stuff can be very good when it works, specifically adjusting acceleration/braking rates so light locos and heavy rakes can be different, but you really do need automation to get the most from it not least because when driving manually to get the right brake/speed up every time.

But then there's the resulting enjoyment arising from occasionally getting it wrong on the layout My benchmark for this is Peter Townend's commentary concerning what he termed a 'mishap' on which he lead the clear up, all done by the next day, no one seriously injured: 1958 Hitchin, three freight trains off the rails completely obstructing the ECML in a night time multiple collision, with two locos derailed. That's how it was done on the steam railway, no automation required. 'Twas a different world...

[Mountain]

I can well imagine in the early days of DCC, changing cvs was maybe a bit of a phaff \ faff(?).

But things have moved on enormously even in the last few years. There are a host of apps that make changing cvs a breeze, from JMRI \ Decoder Pro to proprietry apps such as Loksound programmer and even Hornby's TM7000.

Things have moved on. IMHO it tends to be people who dont want to move on with the changing tech that tend to create their own, er, issues while hanging on to rose tinted glasses view of older tech. Wifey is a prime example

Changing CV settings wasn't the problem. It was more that "I" couldn't leave things alone! If it was there as a setting I would adjust it, and then adjust it again and again and again as I also altered other adjustments...
With simple DC, there are no CV's to alter so I just wire it up and off I go!

[Phred]

centenary wrote:
while hanging on to rose tinted glasses

I would if I could find them.
I'm not going to ask the wife and give her the satisfaction of pointing straight at them and muttering: 'If it was a dog it would have bit you.'