Hammant and Morgan Minipack

[LittleReggie]

Hi.

Does anyone still have one of these controllers or remember them from the 70s? I had one with my first Playcraft electric train set, for my 5th or 6th birthday. I might still have it somewhere, but I don't know where it is. I vaguely remember the resistance control breaking eventually (stuck on low, I think).

Anyway, they have a resistance screw, whereas most (if not all) other H and M controllers have a flick switch. I only ever remember using this as a High or Low switch, but I started to wonder recently if the point of the screw was to give a variable resistance? Looking at pictures of the box on the internet, they actually called the resistance screw a switch.

Does anyone know? It might influence my decision to buy another one.

Thanks.

[Bigmet]

Never had one myself, but remember them. Usual caution with H&M products such as this item made over a long period of time, the older ones especially have a mains lead and case grommet likely to be made of rubber, which by now is perishing. If you find one that looks suitable require the owner to produce a current portable appliance test as a condition of sale.

[Mountain]

I will also say to ensure the grommets into the case and the cable is safe to use. Is easy to get them tested at a good electricians shop.

Though I do not have one, I do have an old Powermaster, a Clipper and a more modern H&M3000.

Recently I came across findings from a certain narrow gauge specialist kitbuilder They also design and make motorbogies and chassis using various modern space saving motors, some of which contain delicate windings, and with a certain popular selling bogie they happened to be having customer complaints with motor burnouts. When the matter was looked into, they found the common denominator was the use of modern Gaugemaster controllers which were found to use half wave rectification which was found to be the cause of excessive heat in these motors leading to motor failure.
Now I mention this because the specialist supply recommends the use of certain older H&M controllers that have selectable option of full wave electrification which have been found to be safe to use with these modern delicate motors which surprised me as many modellers have said not to use older H&M controllers with modern motors and to use Gaugemaster instead.
Now I don't want to belittle any Gaugemaster product as they are of exceedingly good quality, but what I will say is that those older H&M controllers have their place even when used on modern motors, but to ensure that any motor is safe to use do ensure the motors are not getting too warm, as in regards to modern motors, not all are able to take abuse like older motors did so bear this in mind. Now I honestly don't know which controller is safe with coreless motors as I have heard that Gaugemaster are ok. I honestly do not have a clue if I have a loco with a coreless motor! Mentioning coreless, I do not think the little motors mentioned that were burning out were coreless.

I know I have put the cat amongst the pigeons in mentioning this as I do not say it to debate one against the other, but it is interesting. BUT if buying an older controller DO ENSURE IT IS SAFE. Specialist retailers selling old controllers do have them tested before sale, but do make sure before buying and do secondary visual checks on the plug, the condition of any rubber grommets that prevent the wires rubbing on the case, and the mains cable itself. Very old controllers did have rubber insulation on their wires which breaks down with age, such as the old Hornby Dublo controllers. Do not use these unless one knows the cables have been changed, and even if ones controller be it old or new has been pat tested ALWAYS do a second check, as I have bought a secondhand controller that was pat tested only to have its case grommet disintegrate in my fingers! (I gave it a new grommet and cable to take no chances). Likewize I have had a brand new controller in a trainset that had had its plastic cable support which was so rock hard it had no flex to support the cable at all, quickly split the cable near its plug in transformer leading to a dead short in its bare meal cables. One just does not expect this on brand new train controllers from a reputable manufacturer which split its cables within weeks of owning the trainset!

[Mike Parkes]

There is also asbestos in the inners of old H&M controllers.

I would ditch them and get a non feedback modern modern controller i.e.any of those listed here
https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/gauge ... ntrol.html
which is not described as "with feedback"

Then do a google (etc) search for the one you are interested in as Gaugemster controllers are stocked widely and typically notably discounted, For example the Combi listed by Gaugemaster at £60 is £46.75 post free at Jamlam

[LittleReggie]

Fair points about the safety aspect. I hadn't even thought about that, to be honest. I was only really looking at the H and M Minipack because I have this silly idea about rekindling the magic of getting my first electric train set 50+ years ago. It was a Jouef/Playcraft HO International P1451 Passenger British set. Amazingly, these do turn up on ebay from time to time. I still have the battered loco and coaches from this set, but they suffered a lot of abuse and I don't really think they are repairable. The H and M Minipack was the controller I had with this set, but I suppose I could just use the basic Bachmann DC controller I have now.

I too noticed that some of the H and M controllers had a wave switch, offering the choice of half wave or full wave rectification. I don't understand why you would ever want half wave in preference to full wave rectification. Surely the aim is to always produce the smoothest DC output, which would be from full wave?

Thanks.

[Mountain]

I can answer that. Some of the older motors such as the Triang/Hornby X03/X04 could crawl really smoothly and slowly under the half wave option I am told. The old H&M controllers were particularly made to improve the performance with these older motors. Even some older Triang controllers had interesting control in that one type would automatically switch to half wave control in the slower speeds and full wave for the higher speeds.

In regards to the controller... There is a H&M specialist but they don't have the Minipack in stock.

[LittleReggie]

Ah, I get it now, thank you.

The H and M specialist would be Handem, right? I wouldn't mind having a go at building one of their own PWM kits, but I read somewhere else that PWM can cause some motors to run hot. Was this subject always so complicated?

Another interesting website I came across is binnsroad.co.uk, which (amongst a thousand other things) lists all these controllers, along with pictures of them.

[aleopardstail]

PWM can heat motors, depends upon the frequency. if you stick a non-DCC locomotive on DCC track the screeching noise you hear is the motor being energised forward/backwards/forward/backwards over and over many times a second. that energy ends up as heat in the motor coils

higher frequency PWM drives sort of get around it as the magnetic field is manipulated differently as forwards/off/forwards/off which doesn't generate so much heat.

its possible to take a PWM signal and add smoothing circuitry to it when making a controller for DC motors, provides a level of soft start/stop also

seem to remember my father made a custom controller for some old N gauge stuff, and after blowing a few up got it working, rotary dial, switch for direction and a small red button, which when pressed sent the full 12v in the appropriate direction for a small fraction of a second. that was the "kick start" to get a stalled low speed locomotive moving

in truth the ideal situation is a controller matched to the motor, some of the DCC chips can do it, most have just a couple of options but some can be tuned - though you need to know how which is a bit of a black art