R2947X versus new R30448 (NSE)

[stefn]

Hi,

Looking at Hornby Network Southeast class 423s with early thoughts of a 90s layout in mind.

I see one was released a few years ago - R2947X - which can be picked up on the likes of eBay for £260 or so:
https://www.hattons.co.uk/directory/ver ... _423_4_vep

The great connected web of marketing cookies has noticed me browsing and Facebook is trying to sell me a preorder on a new R30448 like this:
https://railsofsheffield.com/products/h ... train-pack

...that's quite a jump in price. So can any experienced heads explain the difference? I assume the new one is not just a re-release of the old.... is the new one more accurately-modelled? A better motor?

[RFS]

Indeed it is a serious rework. Better motor (and not placed in the passenger compartment), redesigned front end, no solid first-class corridor partitions and no traction tyres any more.

[stefn]

Indeed it is a serious rework. Better motor (and not placed in the passenger compartment), redesigned front end, no solid first-class corridor partitions and no traction tyres any more.

Perfect answer, thank you. Yes, I understand that would all come with a price hike.

I would say, at the current stage of my collecting (i.e. toe-dipping and daydreaming!) that the older model would be good enough for me but it's good to know what's out there

[Bigmet]

I would say, at the current stage of my collecting (i.e. toe-dipping and daydreaming!) that the older model would be good enough for me but it's good to know what's out there.

My follow up question would be whether the 'toe-dipping and daydreaming' extends as far as some day operating the models you are collecting?

The first reason for asking this is that there is some evidence from my RTR OO experience of these last 25 years - that is the products of China Inc. from whatever brand name on the box, which are all made using the same set of techniques developed from many years production of HO models - that some component failures occur on traction models never used after leaving the factory and long in storage. The plastic spur gears that are standard in the drive trains are probably top of the list for such failure.

To this end, I would suggest running the new acquisitions for a couple of hours at least, both directions, just in case what I suggest is true. This may also find an 'infant mortality', before the warranty expires. This only requires a circle of set track on a piece of ply and a modest DC controller.

And then there's the question of what to buy. I would suggest like a shot, buy the current product which has eliminated the known flaws: you don't need traction tyres or the flaky drive of the original release if running models on a layout lurks in your future.

As ever, YMMV, and enjoy whatever you may choose to do!

[RFS]

Dealers such as Rails are restricted from offering more than 10% discount on new models for a fixed period after they first become available. For example, this version in Southern livery, released a year or more ago, is now available at 26% discount. So you could wait a while for the price to drop on the new model you want.

https://railsofsheffield.com/products/h ... 1769&_ss=r

[Mountain]

Dealers such as Rails are restricted from offering more than 10% discount on new models for a fixed period after they first become available. For example, this version in Southern livery, released a year or more ago, is now available at 26% discount. So you could wait a while for the price to drop on the new model you want.

https://railsofsheffield.com/products/h ... 1769&_ss=r

Used to have that in the bicycle trade but the price fixing manufacturers soon went bankrupt as others came in with different selling strategies and outsold them.

Price fixing only works while a company temporarily has the monopoly, but set the prices just a tad too high and in flood the competition! Always has and always will be the long term end result.

(I fully understand the desire to fix prices though both on behalf of the smaller retailers and the manufacturers themselves. But from my years in various positions involved in the retail bicycle trade, not one of the companies that did this in the past today survive, which makes it very difficult to decide to act or not in fixing prices, as it can backfire if one does not get it right. But could this also dictate unusually high secondhand prices of nearly new stock?)

[stefn]

My follow up question would be whether the 'toe-dipping and daydreaming' extends as far as some day operating the models you are collecting?

The first reason for asking this is that there is some evidence from my RTR OO experience of these last 25 years - that is the products of China Inc. from whatever brand name on the box, which are all made using the same set of techniques developed from many years production of HO models - that some component failures occur on traction models never used after leaving the factory and long in storage. The plastic spur gears that are standard in the drive trains are probably top of the list for such failure.

To this end, I would suggest running the new acquisitions for a couple of hours at least, both directions, just in case what I suggest is true. This may also find an 'infant mortality', before the warranty expires. This only requires a circle of set track on a piece of ply and a modest DC controller.

And then there's the question of what to buy. I would suggest like a shot, buy the current product which has eliminated the known flaws: you don't need traction tyres or the flaky drive of the original release if running models on a layout lurks in your future.

As ever, YMMV, and enjoy whatever you may choose to do!

Thanks for that. If I buy something to set aside, I will test it thorougly before putting it away!

Dealers such as Rails are restricted from offering more than 10% discount on new models for a fixed period after they first become available. For example, this version in Southern livery, released a year or more ago, is now available at 26% discount. So you could wait a while for the price to drop on the new model you want.

https://railsofsheffield.com/products/h ... 1769&_ss=r

Hmm - if there is a chance the new one will drop to £300ish after a year or so, that's as near to the old model's £260 as makes no odds and I'd get a superior product in return for waiting. I am willing to wait and see.

[Bigmet]

...if there is a chance the new one will drop to £300ish after a year or so, that's as near to the old model's £260 as makes no odds and I'd get a superior product in return for waiting. I am willing to wait and see...

That's been my usual method since the first ten years of outrageously low prices for the Chinese manufactured RTR OO ceased. There have been exceptions where I was confident that a sell out would occur, and the model was something essential for my modelling interest.

Now - just my opinion - I think MU's are a special case, and as a result the safest bet for 'wait and see'. MU's present something of a problem on many layouts, they occupy a determined length of track and are 'inflexible' compared to the loco and carriage combinations they displaced on the railway, which can be 'mixed and matched' to represent different trains. I happen to need multiple examples of just one DMU class for my modelling subject, and other than the first purchase to assess its qualities ( ) , have since been able to obtain all I require, initially discounted, and latterly very economically s/h.

[RFS]

Worth bearing in mind the latest model is a revamp of the older version rather than being a first-time model, so many people may already have one or two, and are reluctant to buy another unless they can sell their older one(s) first.

There are loads of the older version on Ebay such as this one https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/375871654787. Wanting £260 for it which is almost as much as some new versions. It's been listed since 17th December and amazingly there are 55 watchers! Are they potential buyers, or perhaps intending sellers if they see this price is met....

[Bigmet]

...listed since 17th December and amazingly there are 55 watchers! Are they potential buyers, or perhaps intending sellers if they see this price is met....

Nah, one person sockpuppeting with 55 identities to torment the vendor...

[Metadyneman]

I have both of the newer versions of this model (The South Central trains and the South West trains versions) and i have to say I am more than happy with both of them and they are a vast improvement on the previous versions. I have also had the previous versions, both of which I sold to finance the newer ones. I would advise against buying the older version for a number of reasons. 1) the inter car wiring is prone to coming adrift and you eventually lose either the interior and or the directional lighting. 2) It has traction tyres on wheels with pick ups which is both an anomaly and an abomination! 3) the coach bogie wheels are not very free running and are clipped into the bogie rather than held in with pin points. 3)The driving trailer composite interiors have solid corridor partitions which look awful. 4)The front cab dimensions are completely wrong (modified on the later version and a lot better but still not quite right) 5) I would class it as a poor to average runner.

Both the new versions I have I paid under £300 for and in terms of the improvements made (particularly the inter car wiring in the couplings) are much better value than paying over £200 for basically a cr*p earlier version.
I hope this assists

[Metadyneman]

...listed since 17th December and amazingly there are 55 watchers! Are they potential buyers, or perhaps intending sellers if they see this price is met....

Nah, one person sockpuppeting with 55 identities to torment the vendor...

What "watchers" actually do is they sit and wait to see if the price comes down to a level they are prepared to pay or the seller changes the listing to include a "best offer". It's a useful tool to keep an eye on something even if it is not actually an auction. I've had a few purchases by simply "watching" an item and you get an alert if the seller changes the listing or price.

[Bigmet]

Nah, one person sockpuppeting with 55 identities to torment the vendor...

What "watchers" actually do is they sit and wait to see if the price comes down to a level they are prepared to pay...

Indeed so; I always forget to add a when exercising my dire sense of humour.

... I hope this assists...

I so enjoy reading useful assessments of models, we can never have too many.

I do hope that with enough of these in circulation there will be a reduction in the number of posts in the category 'I wish I had known that all <Mainline> steam models regularly fail due to <wheels fall off>after ten minutes operation'. (Other brand identities and failure modes may be substituted in the < > < > slots...)

[SRman]

I have both of the newer versions of this model (The South Central trains and the South West trains versions) and i have to say I am more than happy with both of them and they are a vast improvement on the previous versions. I have also had the previous versions, both of which I sold to finance the newer ones. I would advise against buying the older version for a number of reasons. 1) the inter car wiring is prone to coming adrift and you eventually lose either the interior and or the directional lighting. 2) It has traction tyres on wheels with pick ups which is both an anomaly and an abomination! 3) the coach bogie wheels are not very free running and are clipped into the bogie rather than held in with pin points. 3)The driving trailer composite interiors have solid corridor partitions which look awful. 4)The front cab dimensions are completely wrong (modified on the later version and a lot better but still not quite right) 5) I would class it as a poor to average runner.

Both the new versions I have I paid under £300 for and in terms of the improvements made (particularly the inter car wiring in the couplings) are much better value than paying over £200 for basically a cr*p earlier version.
I hope this assists

I have to agree with everything you have said here.

I have one newer version and several older ones (all of the older ones bought fairly cheaply, so I can't complain). With decent decoders fitted and a lot of tweaking and tuning, the older ones can be made to run nicely, although still not with the refinement of the Bachmann EMUs. I have even managed to run a Hornby VEP in multiple (consist) with a Bachmann CEP without any problems. For all of that, though, I would agree absolutely that the OP should aim for the newer versions.