Signal location help needed

[crab]

Hi all
Im trying to figure out how many home and ground signals would be typical for my mid-1930s LMS station as attached. I cant get Cyril Freezers book here in NZ, but have based my schematic on old LMS signalling diagrams. Though the whole layout is probably larger than average (approx 2.6M x 5.8M), the station is the only part I intend to signal. The length covered by the diagram is about 4M, dont know if I will fit distants yet!

Do I really need outer and inner homes? Some stations seemed to have them, some not, but generally they seemed to be used to protect any points on the line even within the station limits.
I'm guessing I need some ground discs at the crossovers at A, B and C, to control shunting moves off the relevant main line. Should they be white or yellow? And which direction do they face?

How do most modellers set any signals up operationally? I mean, I will probably uses servos to operate them, but do you wire the signals up so they are interlocked via all relevant points, or do you just make sure your points are set correctly before operating the signal?

Another silly question, would it be correct to have Rule 55 white diamonds on the 3 signals close to the signal box and not the others?

Within the goods yard and sidings, would these points normally be operated as needed from the ground levers, or would they all be controlled by the signal box?

Cheers Crab

[aleopardstail]

pinch of salt needed, not an expert here.

"home" signals are used anywhere the signalman will want to be able to hold a train, on your diagram

"outer home" is actually the "home" signal protecting the station, there would be one distant some 1,000 or so yards up the line (exact distance varies based on line speeds, gradients etc but usually far enough back most layouts wouldn't have it)
"inner home" is actually the platform starter signal - an actual "inner home" would be upstream of the platforms and only really needed if there was a routine need to stack trains in the station approach, usually a more complex station where one line split into multiple routes
"starter" is actually the advanced starter allowing a train to move clear of the platform but still be held within the signal boxes section, this is one that gets cleared with the permission of the next box.

the positioning is fine

your "inner home" on the down line really needs to be a split starter, a "Y" shaped junction signal looking thing, or two as the loop also needs a signal to depart
likewise the down "outer home" is a junction signal with at least two main arms and either a smaller third or full size third arm for the goods yard
parcels bay would either have a starter (if trains actually depart) or a ground signal (if its only ever shunting)

the goods area with local frames would have the frames interlocked to the box but likely locally worked by flags

the gasworks line (assuming its bi-directional) could be signalled or locally worked (e.g. if they have their own shunter) but would have a signal of some sort for trains entering the station area

ground discs would as I understand it all be red on white backgrounds (could be wrong though) as they all actually stop trains, they face to the train movement being controlled means the driver can see them - pretty much any movement that allows a train onto the main running lines would have a signal of some sort, stuff thats purely within the goods area possibly not

as for the white diamonds, I think they were used to indicate the fireman didn't have to physically go to the box as there was a track circuit indicating the line is blocked by the standing train so in effect they are optional

interlocking. many don't bother, even with controlled signals and just operate them manually, if you are wanting interlocking the best way is electrically via a micro controller that can see block occupancy and point settings, and even then has a manual override so for example a station signal can be set to "caution" not "clear" manually - though a train can stop at a station with "clear" aspects then depart so long as they are still clear according to the timetable - not every time a train stops is signal controlled

[Bigmet]

...do you wire the signals up so they are interlocked via all relevant points...

I wouldn't even contemplate it: the system integrity has to be perfect to avoid destroying all the fun of model railway operation; unless systems design and maintenance is what totally floats your boat, in which case you wouldn't need to ask the question.

[centenary]

...do you wire the signals up so they are interlocked via all relevant points...

I wouldn't even contemplate it: the system integrity has to be perfect to avoid destroying all the fun of model railway operation; unless systems design and maintenance is what totally floats your boat, in which case you wouldn't need to ask the question.

Agree. KISS is the watch word else you spend more time setting stuff up to be correct and no time to run locos.

You can get ground signals to work with point motors such as those from DCC Concepts but there is an obvious cost which some might not want to engage with.

As Im using DCC Concepts IP Analog point motors, I intend wiring in some ground signals to these with the provision the operator can see them (the ground signals) easily otherwise, what's the point?

[crab]

Thanks for the replies guys, much appreciated.

[aleopardstail]

Thanks for the replies guys, much appreciated.

Keep in mind, your layout, your rules

the book I use and was recommended to me is "Railway signalling in the mechanical era" by L. P. Lewis