RFID tags

[aleopardstail]

pondering.

Aware its possible to use an FRID tag to provide an ID number, roll it over the sensor and get the ID. then use it for whatever.

has anyone experimented with the user data portion of the ID tags though?

e.g. instead say of reading the ID, looking it up in a table to get the DCC address, or a text string to use as its name actually put that info on the tag?

have been experimenting and while there is certainly a read speed issue if you only want say 8 bytes its easy, and at lower speeds more is possible.

pondering automating a fiddle yard and the idea of having tagged stock that includes the length it requires has potential

[centenary]

pondering.

Aware its possible to use an FRID tag to provide an ID number, roll it over the sensor and get the ID. then use it for whatever.

has anyone experimented with the user data portion of the ID tags though?

e.g. instead say of reading the ID, looking it up in a table to get the DCC address, or a text string to use as its name actually put that info on the tag?

have been experimenting and while there is certainly a read speed issue if you only want say 8 bytes its easy, and at lower speeds more is possible.

pondering automating a fiddle yard and the idea of having tagged stock that includes the length it requires has potential

Take a look at MegaPointsControllers RFID system and tags. Intro says "Using the RFID tags you can create a 4 digit loco ID and identify the train when it passes a reader."

https://megapointscontrollers.co.uk/pro ... cba1185463

[aleopardstail]

niice, thats the same tag stickers I've got, using a different wifi module here as I have tried those MFRC522 boards and found them a bit "meah"

sounds a similar concept though what I've got is somewhat cheaper being just an ESP8266 module and the reader, that software setup does look good though

four digit code should be reliable, only means reading one page of data if its stored directly on the tags

nice to know the idea isn't barking though

[Bigmet]

RFID is a good fit for model railway application, because the tag will 'present' to the reading system consistently.

I have a very funny 'war story' about a global scale proposed application for RFID which occurred over 30 years ago, which I 'squashed' on the basis of the system supplier's own information, left on file by a departed - clearly expert and crystal clear thinking - employee. It's not often that the opportunity of easily disappointing overenthusiastic knowlessmen, before any signiifcant money has been wasted, just drops into one's lap.

[aleopardstail]

RFID is a good fit for model railway application, because the tag will 'present' to the reading system consistently.

I have a very funny 'war story' about a global scale proposed application for RFID which occurred over 30 years ago, which I 'squashed' on the basis of the system supplier's own information, left on file by a departed - clearly expert and crystal clear thinking - employee. It's not often that the opportunity of easily disappointing overenthusiastic knowlessmen, before any signiifcant money has been wasted, just drops into one's lap.

lol, oh its soooo nice to be able to torpedo something that sounds reasonable so long as you never expose it to reality

[Mountain]

Didn't Lenz make a reader device that read out decoder numers as they passed? I am sure they did back around the year 2000.

Saves getting a criminal record.

[aleopardstail]

Didn't Lenz make a reader device that read out decoder numers as they passed? I am sure they did back around the year 2000.

Saves getting a criminal record.

Railcom can do it, does it very well, needs a railcom enabled decoder is the vehicles you want to identify though

does provide quite a bit though, IIRC you can get DCC address, speed and directional info, think there is more.

its quite clever

[Mountain]

Sounds a great idea.

Part if the issue I had in the past was to try to number my tops code locos in such a way I could hide the four figre addresses in their numbers but I failed as there were too many duplicates with 37's and 47's without renaming and renumbering which was quite a job as for some it would need a repaint and I didn't fancy doing that.
While in theory one could take the last four or the first four or the first pair and last pair but whatever I tried I was finding duplicates in my fleet.

I decided for both nostalgia and economy reasons to use DC for 0-16.5 so it is not an issue and though I liked DCC as it is great, but I really, really, really missed DC with congratulating my self on the wiring and using lovely cluncky toggle switches. I missed it! So much quicker as well to trace faults the way I had it.

But the device that you mention does solve an issue that many DCC enthusiasts face. Allocating DCC numbers. Mind you, if I was a GWR modeller and only ran GWR locos it would be fine!

[aleopardstail]

Testing!

so far mixed results, this is with a PN532 module at 3.3v and an ESP8266. reader is placed below the tracks, with a thin sheet of styrene between it and the rails. tags are small NTag231 stickers, about 10mm x 20mm, chosen as they will fit in the back to back.

tag mounted under coach bogie ~ 15mm above the reader, this works, dragged past by a train (so the rails powered up) and detects fine, the amount of data that can be read depends on the speed, at higher speeds the ID and the first page work, above that less reliable, lower speed its fine.

tag mounted under coach body ~ 20mm above the reader, fails, every time

mounted under a locomotive gets interesting, used a Hornby J52 as the first victim. tags right at the extreme ends of the body work, however placed nearer the front or rear axle and refuses to read it - and refuses motor running or powered down, this at about 12mm.

repeated with an old B12, again zero read, will again read same height from a coach.

ok initial conclusion, antenna is not strong enough when there is a magnet or significant metal nearby - it will read through a steel ruler though.

having a read about online there are quite a few of these PN532 boards that are basically cheaply made and have really rubbish antenna sensitivity. going to try ordering one where the antenna coil is not part of the board and see if that works.

[Bigmet]

I suspect your more sensitive receiving antenna plan is the way to go.

Or would it be practical to read from overhead, tag on roof undersides? Obviously with this scheme the reader head is visually intrusive, unless you can accomodate overbridges, tunnnels, overall station roof, and above track signalboxes in the layout plan.

Part of the issue I had in the past was to try to number my tops code locos in such a way I could hide the four figure addresses in their numbers but I failed as there were too many duplicates with 37's and 47's without renaming and renumbering which was quite a job as for some it would need a repaint and I didn't fancy doing that.
While in theory one could take the last four or the first four or the first pair and last pair but whatever I tried I was finding duplicates in my fleet.

Just in case anyone else has this problem there is a practical 'work around' using TOPS , with a little 'human method' input.
Start with your most numerous classes, in 'Mountain's' case, 37s and 47s, and proceed as follows:
All class 37 start with digit 3, followed by last three series numbers, thus all are unique.
All class 47 start with digit 4, followed by last three series numbers, thus all are unique.

Aha you say, I have other power class 3 and 4, and locos in further 100+ in power class besides.
The same principle applies, allocate the most numerous of power classes in 0, 1, 2, 5, etc. the leading digit, TOPS series number following. (If you are really lucky and none in a power class had more than 99 in class, then the full class number and two digit series number can be used for all, Deltics for example, 22 in class, 551 to 5522.

Should there be remaining classes of more than 100, these have to take a different leading digit, (warning klaxon goes off: your fleet collection is really excessive) followed by TOPS series number. Write an aide memoire on a poster size notice Brush 2 = 6, EE type 4 = 7 etc. and hang it on the wall. there's enough room in 9,999 available addresses with a little imagination.

[aleopardstail]

not sure overhead will work, issues with below track as well given the size of the modules and the way whoever designed them stuck the electronics on the top surface.

have found the MFRC boards are better at reading than the PN532, though the latter has better range the former will pick up the required 16 bytes of user data reliably as running speeds.

have found the board can have some replacement components, on order, which apparently get the read distance up to 2-3cm which should be plenty. also apparently adding some ferrite sheet (need to find a sensibly priced source) behind the tag should sort out the issue with the locomotives metal bulk causing issues.

as for the TOPS bit, for dingleberry I went with a reasonably simple solution, if a bit crude. the two or three digit locomotive class, then 0-9 for how many I had.

thus my two Class 86 were 860 & 861, also a 250, 470 & 1010

figured not likely to ever have more than ten of anything. for the OO gauge stuff LNER numbers seen to be four digits or less so result

[Bigmet]

...figured not likely to ever have more than ten of anything. for the OO gauge stuff LNER numbers seem to be four digits or less so result.

And easy enough to remember that the LNER's W1 4-6-4 no 10000, sole example with a five digit number, is 9999 on the system!

The LMS ran to five digit loco numbers, and this then applied under BR to all but one region; and I have never encountered anyone with difficulties arising as a result on DCC; I simply use the LNER number for my BR(ER) interest by subtracting the leading 6, easy... Even those faced with Bulleid's foray into alpha-numeric seem to cope...

[aleopardstail]

...figured not likely to ever have more than ten of anything. for the OO gauge stuff LNER numbers seem to be four digits or less so result.

And easy enough to remember that the LNER's W1 4-6-4 no 10000, sole example with a five digit number, is 9999 on the system!

The LMS ran to five digit loco numbers, and this then applied under BR to all but one region; and I have never encountered anyone with difficulties arising as a result on DCC; I simply use the LNER number for my BR(ER) interest by subtracting the leading 6, easy... Even those faced with Bulleid's foray into alpha-numeric seem to cope...

guessing it helps that more modern DCC systems allow addition of names and in some cases with JMRI photographs so you get to the point of not really needing to know the actual address.

have some Ferrite Shielding on order to try again with the locomotives, as well as stuff to uprate the antenna, all experimental at this stage but if I can get reliable reading it has potential. noted as well that these tags can be quite close together, e.g. adjacent bogies on coaches which is closer than one at each end of a tank engine would be so directional recognition should also be possible (i.e. so now know the block is occupied, what is in it and which way its facing, all useful stuff when its comes to taking control of something automagically)

[Bufferstop]

Even those faced with Bulleid's foray into alpha-numeric seem to cope...

Can anyone explain to me Bullied's logic in using the format n1-n2-alpha rather than the more obvious n1-alpha-n2. It's easy enough to understand, but doesn't translate well to other systems. Or was it just another example of 'Ollie being awkward'.

[Bigmet]

Thread drift warning!

Can anyone explain to me Bulleid's logic in using the format n1-n2-alpha rather than the more obvious n1-alpha-n2. It's easy enough to understand, but doesn't translate well to other systems...

I reckon as good an explanation as any is that he was chronodivergent*, and caught a piece of a future popular song which aligned with his character:
"Whether I'm right or whether I'm wrong
Whether I find a place in this world or never belong
I gotta be me, I've gotta be me"

And that was all the encouragement required! In fairness it should be said that the one person I have known that worked under his tutelage at Inchicore regarded him as a wonder for the breadth and depth of his engineering knowledge and openness to ideas, and was forever grateful for the experience.

*Not quite as gifted in this matter as Democritus; he who tuned into atomic theory, over two millenia before any evidence emerged ...

Or more conventionally he was definitely a Europhile, and probably had leanings toward the UIC system
http://www.douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/LOCO ... ashsys.htm

A couple of happy days spent surveying the contents of Douglas Self's excellent 'Loco Locomotives' will persuade any unbiased reader that OVSB was properly grounded, and well within the 'normal' range of steam loco engineers.

Normal service resumes!