KR Models announce EE type 4, TOPS 40, for EOI

[Bigmet]

As per title, KR models are asking for expressions of interest in a Class 40.
https://www.krmodels.net/eoi/br-class-40-whistler/

That's a departure from their established M.O. in traction models, which has been 'one of a kind' subjects and no previous RTR OO model available , with no potential competitor in sight.

Competitor review: There's a centre motor drive model from Bachmann which I believe is 'in progress' for an upgrade; and in the usual style of the house looks like the sprawling thing, and will pull enough stock to fill a circuit on a 12' x 6' layout. Hornby have their version of the Lima model, one of the better Italian jobs for appearance; and then there's likely a mountain of s/h available from all these brands. That's a fair range of choice and price to be going up against IMO.

[Richard08]

With the proliferation of new (if somewhat temporary in many cases) companies making trains clashes are inevitable - this is a good thing in my book, actual direct competition *should* drive up quality while keeping prices competitive... Who knows, someone might make a 00 model that runs really well soon! (Semi tounge in cheek)

[Bigmet]

With the proliferation of new (if somewhat temporary in many cases) companies making trains clashes are inevitable - this is a good thing in my book, actual direct competition *should* drive up quality while keeping prices competitive...

Ah, but 'quality' has no absolute values, being 'fitness for purpose' in the opinion of the customer; and thus competition isn't necessarily toward 'intrinsically better' as a result.

I was only a bystander when Hornby and Lima engaged in their 'death spiral' competition to see which could maintain the lowest price, achieved in part by fitting the cheapest mechanisms possible, noisy, lacking torque, dependent on traction tyres and with deficient current collection. They were competing for the spend of customers of the 'cheap and pretty exterior' persuasion; and loud was the complaining, when Lima went bust and Hornby bought their range, and began their move to China in order to compete with Bachmann: whose policy was 'we can offer better - at a price' because they owned access to the HO mechanism technique long proven in production of models for the American market.

Near all the European made RTR OO traction prior to 2000 is junk in my opinion, mainly because of the dated and 'downgraded for cheapness' designs of the mechanisms. (It's a shame that H-D were so poor at business as to go under. With good management that could have been a UK Marklin equivalent.)

Even now it is necessary to pick carefully to avoid current items which are compromised in the mechanism department, both from ancient toolings, and due to current competition as brand managements look to keep the price down, and I expect there will be more of this to come.

[Richard08]

Near all the European made RTR OO traction prior to 2000 is junk in my opinion, mainly because of the dated and 'downgraded for cheapness' designs of the mechanisms. (It's a shame that H-D were so poor at business as to go under. With good management that could have been a UK Marklin equivalent.)

Even now it is necessary to pick carefully to avoid current items which are compromised in the mechanism department, both from ancient toolings, and due to current competition as brand managements look to keep the price down, and I expect there will be more of this to come.

My observation would be that returning to the hobby after the best part of 40 years I'm extremely glad I decided to go for O gauge rather than 00 as it turns out 00 has spent all it's efforts on perusing detail over functionality. Form all the reviews of current 00 models I've watched since choosing my scale it's pretty clear modern models do not perform any better than those of 40 years ago, and a few are worse! While being used to being in a minority of one, in this case there are a number of Youtubers who also comment that the quest for detail has overtaken the need for a model that can just be used without risking damage. Had I forked out £250 for, say, a Hush-Hush I would have been bitterly disappointed - for that money I would expect running perfection! During my off years I occasionally looked at RMWeb (a mistake, I know) to see what was going on and felt quite sorry for Simon Kohler being berated by a small minority of very vocal people constantly demanding higher accuracy while those arguing that they just wanted something that they could afford and would work nicely were rubbished. I think a lot of long-time modellers have forgotten their roots and that others have differing requirements from the hobby (this happens in all hobbies/interests/clubs, not picking on trains). Hornby and the others are in an invidious position, should they use limited resources to satisfy the vocal minority or get bad PR when addressing the needs of commercial reality?

[Bigmet]

...From all the reviews of current 00 models I've watched since choosing my scale it's pretty clear modern models do not perform any better than those of 40 years ago, and a few are worse! ...

I would suggest that you need to look at a broader range of reviews. From my resumption of active railway modelling after a 1999 purchase of a couple of Bachmann WD 2-8-0s and some 16T mineral wagons, I have been very satisfied with my carefully selected RTR OO purchases. It was fun to be able to purchase RTR models to a standard that formerly required much work to build and paint, to obtain a satisfactorily accurate, well detailed and finished, and reliable operating model. I worked on many of them to overcome commercial compromises and make them fit my requirements, and was happy to do so with 95% of the hard graft already done, and this last aspect good value for the asking price.

...While being used to being in a minority of one, in this case there are a number of Youtubers who also comment that the quest for detail has overtaken the need for a model that can just be used without risking damage. Had I forked out £250 for, say, a Hush-Hush I would have been bitterly disappointed - for that money I would expect running perfection!...

The problem with many of those that object to easily damaged detail, is that when offered a defeatured product with simplification, lower build cost by means including reduced detail for the cost saving, it turns out this was not exactly what was wanted either; that's the impression I have formed both from Hornby's representatives and model shop owners. The brands have to choose what path to take: it suits my interest very well that accurate, well detailed and finished, with reliable operation, is the typical choice. These require no more careful handling than equivalent DIY constructed well detailed models.

I have the Hush-Hush in final BR liveried form, and very good too, worth the cash, I couldn't build it for that money. That there are a couple of compromises for R2 operation is something I can fix; and on this model Hornby have made progress in making these DIY fixes easier to accomplish, which I appreciate. Likewise other reasonably recent purchases the Bachmann V2, Oxford J27 and N7, Rapido Stirling single, Heljan Gresley O2, ; and the rolling stock, largely from Bachmann and Hornby. And I have not needed to do very much at all to Hornby's J36, D16/3, B12/3, QoS Pullman cars, Heljan's classes 15, 23, 26/0, Dapol class 21, Hornby's QoS Pullman cars, all of Bachmann's mk1 coaches since the death of 'roofs ribbed for your displeasure', and most of their wagons; other than adding a little 'operational filth' and making coupler adjustments.

...During my off years I occasionally looked at RMWeb (a mistake, I know) to see what was going on and felt quite sorry for Simon Kohler being berated by a small minority of very vocal people constantly demanding higher accuracy while those arguing that they just wanted something that they could afford and would work nicely were rubbished. I think a lot of long-time modellers have forgotten their roots and that others have differing requirements from the hobby (this happens in all hobbies/interests/clubs, not picking on trains). Hornby and the others are in an invidious position, should they use limited resources to satisfy the vocal minority or get bad PR when addressing the needs of commercial reality?...

No need to feel sorry for SK, he's the public face of a business, and well paid to suffer slings and arrows (been there, got that T-shirt in another sphere!). Other brand representatives were similarly treated. I can claim not having forgotten my roots: dissatisfied with UK RTR OO from the time I could make the comparision with my continental cousin's much superior RTR HO models. Discovered the world of model railway clubs and thus progressively ideas like build it yourself, and on to EM and P4, yadda, yadda; discovering that I didn't really want to have to build it myself, but operation was my primary interest above all else.

As the brands serving UK OO have almost without exception gone for catch up with HO over the last 20 odd years, that suggests this was a correctly informed business decision. If there is a gap in the market for 'affordable and works well', then there are plenty of businesses with the potential to enter this market. If this isn't happening, that suggests the demand is not sufficient to make such a product viable... Brutal, but that is business: if no one is producing something that was previously available and 'popular' as in 'sold in volume', there is a reason. Other hobby sectors have similar causes of loud complaint: lack of vinyl , audio cassettes, VHS and supporting kit for example...

And since the 'dread RMweb' has been mentioned, though by choice I am no longer active there, this is typical of the kind of input I made, relating to the Hornby O1 released ten years ago:

"Certainly qualifies as a genuinely 'ready to run' loco based on my specimen too. Unlike my Hornby L1 and B1 examples which were a little noisy and took an hour or so to quiet, this one was near silent from the off, and would imediately perform a creep into motion and do a smooth dead slow crawl in both directions, very refined. Close setting of the drawbar is fine on my 30" minimum radius running lines and it went through a 24" radius in the yard area without trouble. Managed a 36g force drawbar pull, plenty for 60+ free rolling 4W wagons; and that figure will probably improve as the tyres polish up. Will get an extra 100g of weight at some point; as while traction is satisfactory on the level it won't do a start on a 1 in 80 with a scale length train, I don't see that as a fault, it's just a requirement for my operational set up.

Heavens above, four heavy freight types allocated on ER now available in RTR, and an O2 to come.

Detail stuff. Am I alone in feeling that the lack of representation of the lifting arms on the end of the bridle rod does rather show up against the generally good detail? Going to have to apply an overlay there. The small flanges on all but the pony truck are an asset to appearance. The normal size flange on the pony truck wheelset rather stands out as a result. Going to trim that down when it gets the single pivot conversion. But whatever, fine model that's going to make a great canvas for a whole heap of shit as it is rendered into a portrait of March's 63890 circa 1960; which truly looked like a mobile pile of rust and filth when I saw it."