Peco launching 1:120 TT

[Bigmet]

Let's have another scale and gauge combination, there aren't sufficient currently available.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J5L86SxVs0&t=9s

Suspect this may prove popular if there is sufficient commercial support, as many find N too small despite its space saving potential, and 1:120 TT results in models of roughly twice the volume of the N equivalent, significantly chunkier, while not requiring a heap more space. It's interesting that the pitch mentions a finer wheel standard to achieve the small gap between stock and closure rails on the points: Peco must have been talking to RTR product manufacturers, question is which... Piko are the leader in German TT, room for confusion there ...

Joy amongst narrow gaugers too potentially, good for 3' / metre gauge in 4mm and 18" - 2' in 7mm.

[Mountain]

We were having discussions about this on a narrow gauge site. Is a brave move which could well take off as it makes sense. Is TT gauge width track but to a smaller scale of 2.5mm to correct the gauge to scale inaccuracies. The other manufacturers will no doubt take a look and for those who want a table top railway system but are finding N too small this does look very attractive.
Will also give just a tad more space in loco bodies for decoders then N scale has.
It just makes sense.

Will it take off or not?

Well, I know that in the past when I entered into DCC back in 2000-2001 onwards, there was virtually nothing in the UK apart from ZTC which were going through a crises, Digitrax which had to be imported in via America, and Lenz which fortunately had excellent customer support via Mckay Models up in Scotland where no question was too small for them. There was also Roco which worked with Lenz but was only available via buying a H0 trainset in those days.
H0 and DCC had already had built in decoders on locos and the 8 pin sockets whilst here in the UK it took about another five years before the UK "Caught up" with the idea of DCC, but when the main manufacturers being Hornby, Bachmann and others decided to adapt their locos with decoder sockets, and go heavily into DCC, suddenly, as if they were owned by the manufacturers, the model railway press pushed DCC like there was no tomorrow! (Whatever that saying means).
One could be forgiven in those days if one thought the various modelling press happened to have a ban on covering DC, as even articles totally unrelated to anything to do with DCC were mentioning DCC. It was crazy!
The model railway press did such a good job at pushing DCC that most traditionalists in the hobby that had been against past command control systems and held firm to their DC roots suddenly took the DCC route and bought into DCC.
DC controller manufacturers started to dissapear as there had been many small manufacturers but their sales declined.
The whole DCC concept had been around for years before that as when I decided in the year 2000 to go into DCC, hardly any UK modellers had DCC though in the USA and Germany it was the "In thing" and they had took hold of DCC a good decade earlier.
It was not the merits of DCC that sold the idea as I saw DCC being advertized for years as an alternative. It was the UK modelling press that sold the concept of DCC when Bachmann and Hornby decided to get involved.

Now supposing this new TT was pushed in the same way as DCC was? The new scale of TT would overtake 00 in less than a decade if it was pushed in the same way! It is surprizing how strong the pull the magazines have out there in their write-ups along with the influence the two large companies have if they decide to take on the new 2.5mm scale TT. It maybe what they have been looking for? Maybe what finescale modellers have been looking for as well? Time will tell! All I can say is "As long as 00, H0 and N fans are not left out and forgotton, then the new TT will be great".

[Richard08]

I was quite tempted when Triang brought out TT, had my dad not (correctly as it turned out) predicted it wouldn't really go anywhere I would have spent my money on TT rather 00 - the manufacturers wouldn't actually have gained anything (except costs). I assume Peco know what they are doing, but I don't think it will attract new money or people to the market. Proper sleeper spacing in 00, maybe even EM/P4, would be a higher priority, but I'm saying that as an O gauge modeler to whom 00 track looks all wrong, and a better chance to extract value from existing modellers 'upgrading' (Apple, Microsoft style). Just some thoughts. It will be interesting to see if any major rolling stock manufacturer dips their toes in the water.

[Bigmet]

... I assume Peco know what they are doing, but I don't think it will attract new money or people to the market...

I have to guess that Peco have likely costed this out on the basis of investment recovery in the mainland European market, where TT is well established, and Peco has a good presence in better RTL track offerings. As far as the UK is concerned, I doubt TT will attract new money or people in any numbers. What it may do though is secure continued spending from people whose existing layout in scale X is 'complete'; especially where X = OO, and the glut of the past 25 years production means that many likely 'have it all, or nearly so' for their interest.

... Proper sleeper spacing in 00, maybe even EM/P4, would be a higher priority, but I'm saying that as an O gauge modeler to whom 00 track looks all wrong, and a better chance to extract value from existing modellers 'upgrading' ...

We are beginning to see that in 4mm, which informs my comment about attracting continued spend: introducing such products is based on the proposition of a new / renewed layout with superior RTL track. In offering such a product in the form of Bullhead code 75 for both OO and EM, Peco are probably eating into the sales of their own code 75 FB; and I believe there must have been a pressing motivation for that, like declining sales volumes (before Covid came out of the blue and track demand outstripped supply!).

... It will be interesting to see if any major rolling stock manufacturer dips their toes in the water.

The exciting question. Have Peco fired off a shot in the dark, or have they already approached the various UK brands with an outline of their intentions? Peco must have done the latter in my opinion, especially as they are producing this as a finescale product, which means that the wheel standard will be different from present RTR. (Just think, a finescale RTR scale in the UK with a standard, that might be enough for some folk to take the plunge!)

So which UK brand(s) will decide to go for it? If it is to achieve traction, this needs a fairly broad spread of models available in short order, to enable the customer to make something good. The true scale and gauge combination means that UK steam with outside cylinders and valve gear, and close fitting splashers, will have the same problem seen in UK HO of necessary distortion in width: I'm guessing that D+E will dominate any TT range.

[Bigmet]

...Now supposing this new TT was pushed in the same way as DCC was? The new scale of TT would overtake 00 in less than a decade if it was pushed in the same way! It is surprising how strong the pull the magazines have out there in their write-ups ...

You can bet it will be pushed like crazy in Railway Modeller. Any Peco product is represented as purest Manna from Heaven. Peco will have a few tame modellers building layouts, ready for photography as soon as loco and stock models come along: There will be a TT layout of the month at least three times a year...

[Chops]

I always like TT for that size vs. space ratio, as mentioned, above. Too late for this old dog to learn that new trick. TT chaps are nothing if not skilled for creating so much of their own material. It will be interesting to see if TT enjoys a renaissance.

[Flashbang]

I always thought TT (3mm) was the best of both worlds. Space saving, but still reasonably sized to not look like a Wood Lice moving around the layout!
Its such a shame there is so little ready to run (RTR) UK outline items available in 3mm TT scale, if any? All I've seen is kits.

Brave of Peco to venture into 3mm scale.

[Mountain]

I always thought TT (3mm) was the best of both worlds. Space saving, but still reasonably sized to not look like a Wood Lice moving around the layout!
Its such a shame there is so little ready to run (RTR) UK outline items available in 3mm TT scale, if any? All I've seen is kits.

Brave of Peco to venture into 3mm scale.

Ah, but this new TT is to 2.5mm scale to correct the scale to gauge ratio. Not sure why it is called TT. Maybe it is because it shares the same gauge? Agree with you about the size. It actually fits on a table unlike 00 which was sold as being "Tabletop" but one needed an enormous table to fit it on!

[Bufferstop]

It's a brave move, a good choice for the first RTR loco, a versatile 0-6-0, the chassis of which will doubtless find other models to power. If much of the rolling stock is in kit form, it will enhance the appeal to those who want to do more than unbox and run. The size of the models makes them an excellent size for 3D printing, maybe multiple bodies at a time. It will be interesting to see which other companies join in.

[Bigmet]

...this new TT is to 2.5mm scale to correct the scale to gauge ratio. Not sure why it is called TT. Maybe it is because it shares the same gauge? ...

Because this is TT, as originally introduced in Europe.

Triang made the same compromise - worse in fact - with their TT3, as was made earlier from HO to OO to cope with the narrower width of the UK prototype, which makes fitting in outside valve gear and having splashers over driven wheels problematic. This underlying problem has not gone away!

[Mountain]

I understand now. I assumed TT was 3mm scale. I did not know that.

[Chops]

"Wood Lice."

[Bigmet]

https://peco-uk.com/collections/tt-120/ ... nd-unifrog

Now we see it. For their TT-120 product, Peco's 'medium' radius point is the same radius as their OO Streamline 'medium' radius point. So Peco are serious in the intention that this is a RTR 'true scale' product, which will require large radii, rather than a 'space saver' product. After all, with N gauge readily available for compact modelling, why try and compete there? Instead they have gone for something not previously available in UK small scale RTR model railway, a true scale option; which will need much the same space as OO.

The big question is, will there be a good selection of RTR locos and stock for TT-120 available in the near future? It needs significantly more than a Brush 2 from Heljan and Peco's 7 plank wagon to generate real interest. The present difficulties in China won't be quite what Peco wanted for this product introduction...

[Bufferstop]

There may well be an appeal to those who want a correct scale/gauge relationship but do not want the do it all yourself commitment of EM/P4 or TT3/14,2mm gauges. The Basic yard (or is it a metre) length of 12mm track has been in the Peco catalogue for a number of years so is presumably selling well enough in Europe to encourage them to add the pointwork to the range. As a one time TT3 modeller I watch with interest.