Wiring expertise required

[barney121e]

Is anyone out there willing to help me with wiring a layout, not physically but if i supply a track plan or two, to give me an idea of what needs to go where like irj's, sector switches etc. Have read up about it and just totally confused.

Cheers.

[Roger (RJ)]

Just post the plan. Someone will help.

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John W.

[Suzie]

As Roger says, post a plan, and give us some idea of how you will want to operate.

[barney121e]

Well here is one plan and a screen shot of how it is split into 5 sectors, and the actual track plan. Trying to find out where to put insulated rail joiners and how to section each area off. Have a second plan but hope this one will help me work out second one.

[Mountain]

Excellent. May I suggest one little note to enhance operation and that is where the dark blue and brown meet, to ensure there is enough room to ensure that a loco can come to rest on the brown part so one can isolate the loco by setting the points in the other direction so one has the ability to run a second loco to couple up from behind or one cojld hold the first loco set back on the dark blue section and couple a second loco up to it if needed etc.
Similarly one can also do this same technique by ensuring that where the purple meets the light blue in the siding that the isolation bit is set back so a loco can be set in isolation on the short section of purple track trackbeyond the point itself so one can hold two locos in the siding so one is on the purple and the other is on the light blue. It is things like this where one sets the isolation points that can make a difference and is only moving the point of isolation a short distance to make a useful difference in the operation of the layout.

[Flashbang]

Hi

A few questions to aid design....
1) I assume the layout is to be DC (Analogue) powered? So will there be two separate DC controllers - one for each loop?
2) Why so many sections? IMO its over kill and will not add much to the enjoyment of operating on what is a relatively small layout.
3) Are all the points Insulated frog?

[jed10]

From your original post I assume this is a new layout at the planning stage rather than something that's already built. On that basis, as Flashbang says, having eight separate power zones makes this quite a complicated layout which implies that you anticipate a desire for some quite complex operation. That's no bad thing and I admire your aspiration. However, if that is your aim, then why not make things much easier for yourself and build this as a dcc layout?. That will give you all the complexity you need and all you need to do is run a power bus under the board and connect droppers from every track section to it (which is a bit time consuming but pretty straightforward when building a layout from scratch). Then, if you are using electrofrog points, all you need to do is put IRJs on the inside rails of each V on each set of points.

[b308]

why not make things much easier for yourself and build this as a dcc layout?.

I was with you up to there and that just made me laugh out loud! Why is there this belief that DCC is always simpler when often it's far from it, and much more expensive.

So back to the initial question:

I had plenty of similar layouts when I was a kid and modelling in 00. There is no need for any complicated wiring in DC if using self isolating points (such as set-track points). They will isolate the various sidings and with both points set for the main line they would also isolate the bottom loop. There, all done!

[jed10]

why not make things much easier for yourself and build this as a dcc layout?.

Why is there this belief that DCC is always simpler when often it's far from it, and much more expensive.

I wouldn't disagree with you as s generality but in this case there are two factors which I believe would, for many, make this simpler in dcc. Firstly, the complexity of eight independent power zones, along with the switching required to make this work and the control patching required makes this anything but a 'simple' dc layout but nevertheless clearly quite achievable. Secondly, this is a layout to be built from scratch and dcc wiring is always much easier to install properly from the outset. I agree that to feel confident in the simplicity of dcc one has to have a reasonable level of skill in soldering and an understanding of very basic electronics is helpful. These things alone may deter some but for many others it really isn't an issue.

A dcc layout can cost more, especially if you factor in the cost if a decoder for each loco you buy. That is less of an issue for someone starting from scratch than it would be for someone who already has a large stock of locos that would need converting. However, the cost needs to be weighed against the massive additional scope that dcc offers in running your layout.

In the end it all comes down to personal choice. Some will find dcc easier, some will be too apprehensive to try it and some will just be very happy with dc. The OP asked a question and it's great that he gets a wide range of opinions in response. Only he knows what will be rihht for him. We all get a lot of enjoyment from our layouts however we wire them or operate them.

[b308]

I'm sorry but wiring 8 sections in DC is very simple, but in this case it isn't needed and is overkill for such a simple layout! I was simple pointing out that using self isolating points (set track) this could be done with minimal wiring in DC, certainly less than DCC. You are doing the usual trick for many DCC users in trying to introduce it when it wasn't asked for. From what I can see this question wasn't asked in the DCC part of the forum.

[Mountain]

For his layout, I would personally go for DC with cab control. Both DCC and DC will do the job and do it well but for a small layout like this I would use DC as one is only talking about a few extra wires and switches.

A large club layout with many operators and I would use DCC every time as DCC will really come into its own!

[jed10]

I'm sorry but wiring 8 sections in DC is very simple, but in this case it isn't needed and is overkill for such a simple layout! I was simple pointing out that using self isolating points (set track) this could be done with minimal wiring in DC, certainly less than DCC. You are doing the usual trick for many DCC users in trying to introduce it when it wasn't asked for. From what I can see this question wasn't asked in the DCC part of the forum.

Sorry if I upset you b308 by having what I thought was a valid opinion in respect of the OPs question. . I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'the usual trick' but I do understand that whilst understanding dcc is simple and straightforward for many there are some who struggle with understanding the whole concept. Just be happy with what you do but have respect for other people's opinions.

[b308]

'the usual trick'

Answering a question that wasn't asked to get in a plug for DCC, it's used all the time unfortunately, across many forums.

This wasn't posted in the DCC section and as I said wiring this layout in DC using self isolating points is simplicity in the extreme. I have plenty of respect for others' opinions, but sometimes it's best to look at the section the discussion is posted in before responding.

[barney121e]

Hi

A few questions to aid design....
1) I assume the layout is to be DC (Analogue) powered? So will there be two separate DC controllers - one for each loop?
2) Why so many sections? IMO its over kill and will not add much to the enjoyment of operating on what is a relatively small layout.
3) Are all the points Insulated frog?

1. Yes, is a DC layout. I have a gaugemaster 4 track controller.
2. The plan is from someone else who runs it like it is shown, however if there is an easier way to do it, am open to suggestions.
3. All the points are insulfrog ones.

In regard to DCC, because i am buying older OO gauge locos i felt the messing about to convert them wasn't worth the hassle at the moment. I have a NCE Powercab and in future might well consider using this for another layout in the future.