Industrial minimum space loop

[Hymirl]

Industrial roundy roundy...

An adaption of peco setrack plan 10 after finding that more than a few of CJF's plans for small spaces seem they are "a bit enthusiastic" about the space points actually fit into... plus I don't own any curved points. The goal here being to fit an actual layout into 38" by 62" while keeping 2nd radius on the main line.

I'll take you on a tour.
Imagine the left side is the primary viewing side. (The image is helpfully rotated by photobucket for no reason)

The top right spur is transfer to 'fiddle yard' and one day link to "phase two" which is a Minories style termius which can use the layout for returning trains (if it ever gets made!).

Top between first two loops is a traditional island platform station accessed by bridge to a station building on the right top gap which slso hides the exit line.

The lower left spur is the loco shed (moved inside from plan 10), the two siding next to it serving industry.

The inner loop line is the only first radius in use and is mostly to serve the last industrial siding. It could be altered to a long spur and terminating in multiple sidings instead of rejoining the main line... potentially it could rise as it does so and become a scenic break of sorts. This would probably need the sidings by the engine shed to be reversed to avoid everything squashing into one part of a very squashed layout.

One the other hand three loops at the station end lets me hold lots of trains to take turns whizzing around which entertains the kids?

[Mountain]

It actually looks good. You're going to need some curved platforms though!
While it is the case that not all locos and a limited few coaches/wagons won't run round first radius curves (Most shorter locos and stock will work round them), they can be used on the other curves. It is a bit like real life where only some locos and wagons could be used on sharp dockland or industrial railway curves.

[Bufferstop]

CJF's plans all predate CAD and track planning software, so he could always fudge the start point of the curved leg of the points If space was a bit tight. Some of his plans were worked out full sized on the beaches of Devon, with his wife's tape measure, plus a length of string and a lollipop stick for the curves.

[Hymirl]

It actually looks good. You're going to need some curved platforms though!
While it is the case that not all locos and a limited few coaches/wagons won't run round first radius curves (Most shorter locos and stock will work round them), they can be used on the other curves. It is a bit like real life where only some locos and wagons could be used on sharp dockland or industrial railway curves.

Lol the platform will be one the right shape in the finished article. And a proper baseboard instead of cardboard!

I'm only planning on small locos and 4 wheel wagons on the innermost loop. But having second radius on the main circuit and the run around loop lets me at least let locos do running in on here.

I only thought of turning the inner loop into a 'branch line' after I put everything away but the more I think about it the more I like it for operating interest. Pushing a only couple of wagons up an incline hopefully shouldn't tempt fate too much...

CJF's plans all predate CAD and track planning software, so he could always fudge the start point of the curved leg of the points If space was a bit tight.

I mean no disrespect to CJF! But its tricky to replicate some of his plans in settrack

[Mountain]

I think the key is to have enough track to make it interesting to use without going overboard and making it just look like track on a board!

[Hymirl]

This is probably approaching the most track you can fit onto a board 3 foot 2 inches wide...

And this is pretty much all my available track, which is mostly old steel hornby stuff. Not the best but runs ok if kept clean I recall... although I last ran a train on this track at least 20 years ago.

[Emettman]

Excellent.

The curved station at the "end" is an important trick for small layouts and especially for narrow ones.

Minimum space loop?
12" radius (Playcraft/Jouef) and 10" radius (Fleischmann) curves can be found, but will cause problems (most often with the couplings) for anything other than short wagons and locos. The end throw on the loco starts to be important: the dock shunter is more forgiving than the "Smoky Joe" chassis length.

On a small layout, though, these really tight curves can make it easier to do something (dock, quarry...) with the centre of the board.

Chris.

[Hymirl]

Minimum space loop?
12" radius (Playcraft/Jouef) and 10" radius (Fleischmann) curves can be found, but will cause problems (most often with the couplings) for anything other than short wagons and locos. The end throw on the loco starts to be important: the dock shunter is more forgiving than the "Smoky Joe" chassis length.

On a small layout, though, these really tight curves can make it easier to do something (dock, quarry...) with the centre of the board.

Chris.

I have made a tighter layout already, based on this example by Budget Model Railways.

https://youtu.be/j0ML_YAdRDo

Which I've got working and ballasted ok but... as you say its super limited what you can run. I'd offer you a picture but photobucket is currently annoying the crap out of me so limiting my uploads!

Predictably even 0-6-0s are hopeless (apart from hornby's unconvincing 08 shunter!) And for a little extra room I can run almost anything and it would be nice to see the triang flying scotsman of my youth running again... Even if its chasing its tail somewhat! So more correctly its a minium space 2nd radius loop.

The more sensible running order will be various tank engines, smaller diesels and short trains of small stock in the ever popular BR 60s ish era.

Al

[Bufferstop]

I mean no disrespect to CJF! But its tricky to replicate some of his plans in settrack

A lot of them actually predate the current set track standards. Both TriAng and Hornby Dublo had tighter radii than the current ranges. Peco Settrack was limited to just LH and RH points. Anything else was likely to involve point kits using spiked track which allowed a degree of flexibility in their construction. Once Peco introduced Streamline his battle for Electrofrog points started. It was the only thing he and Sydney Pritchard disagreed about. He was proved right when Graham Farish introduced Liveway which were superior and Peco had to introduce them. Once he moved on from Railway Modeller CJF described how to fit rail into the insulfrogs, but you need to be rather brave to try it.

[Mountain]

In answer to Hymirl.

I load my photos directly on here. I dont use a third party site. My pictures come up like this, but I dont know their size. All I know is that they work! Some other sites I can't use pictures on.

[Emettman]

I have made a tighter layout already, based on this example by Budget Model Railways.

https://youtu.be/j0ML_YAdRDo

Which I've got working and ballasted ok but... as you say its super limited what you can run.

Predictably even 0-6-0s are hopeless (apart from hornby's unconvincing 08 shunter!)

There are some 0-6-0's that can handle 10" curves so should be almost happy with 12" ones:
Principally those with the Junior Bachmann 0-6-0 chassis.
I've not tested it myself but I've seen the Hornby Terrier also being reported as sharp-curve tolerant.

I've cut 0-4-0 Hornby locos with plastic chassis and bodies shorter to help with end throw on minimal curves, but I was re-motoring too, so i'm not sure how much could be done without that. The D class could certainly shrink a bit.

Chris.

[Mountain]

Some 0-6-0's can be adapted to take sharp curves by removing the flanges on the centre wheels.
Both Toby the Tram and Terriers use a similar mechanism and due to the short wheelbase they will go round sharp curves. So will the Mainline and Bachmann class 03's.

[Hymirl]

I load my photos directly on here. I dont use a third party site. My pictures come up like this, but I dont know their size. All I know is that they work! Some other sites I can't use pictures on.

I tried but the file was too large. Something I will look at and fix as it seems much easier than the third party option and I'd like to post some work in progress stuff so you guys can tell me how I'm going wrong!

There are some 0-6-0's that can handle 10" curves so should be almost happy with 12" ones:
Principally those with the Junior Bachmann 0-6-0 chassis.
I've not tested it myself but I've seen the Hornby Terrier also being reported as sharp-curve tolerant.

Been testing. My ancient hornby jinty only goes around in reverse and my new Terrier doesn't derail but really slows down so I stopped using it out of fear of burning it out. The jinty chassis 08 shunter class is fine. The hornby sentinel states in the instructions that its second radius only but is perfectly fine...

The main thing is coupling lock, so I run everything anti clockwise and use stock with only the hook fitted on the interior side...

I like the Bachman junior but its not the easiest to find, the ebay examples are on the expensive side. I might as well get Bachman Thomas which entertains my kids (who are the thinly veiled justification for building the railway!)

(Edit: instead of editing i quoted myself and posted two new posts confused why it wasn't working! Doh!)

[Hymirl]

Mispost sorry

[Hymirl]

Misposted too, sorry again!