What's he up to now ......?
What's he up to now ......?
I started building some K's white-metal 4 wheel coaches a while back [there's a thread somewhere] and whilst the project has not been abandoned, it has rather been pushed towards the back-burner whilst I've got on with other things. In fact, the last two or three months has seen quite a lot of activity and a number of other builds distracted me from the 4 wheel task.
No matter. They will be finished but they have now become part of a larger project: a vintage coach rake including a K's Tri-Composite 6 wheeler and one or two other coaches. The rake will ultimately be hauled by a re-chassied GEM GWR 0-6-2 tank. This is a longer-term project.
So, in light of the above, I indulged in my favourite form of modelling and undertook some experimental surgery today to quickly produce this:
I'd been waiting for some sensibly-priced Triang Clerestories to become available on eBay. The first to come along was this [£7]:
....but it was really too good to cut up so it has been saved until I find some replacement white-metal Dean bogies and better ventilators for it. It'll then go into the rake. What I did cut up was a slightly less mint Brake that came with a Third in blood and custard [the pair £11]. But what's it going to become ? I leave you with a final image as a clue. Believe me, improving the following is going to be a mother of a task, but we'll get there.....
Incidentally, if anybody knows a source of white-metal Dean bogies [8ft 6ins], I'd like to know. Thanks chaps.
Tony
No matter. They will be finished but they have now become part of a larger project: a vintage coach rake including a K's Tri-Composite 6 wheeler and one or two other coaches. The rake will ultimately be hauled by a re-chassied GEM GWR 0-6-2 tank. This is a longer-term project.
So, in light of the above, I indulged in my favourite form of modelling and undertook some experimental surgery today to quickly produce this:
I'd been waiting for some sensibly-priced Triang Clerestories to become available on eBay. The first to come along was this [£7]:
....but it was really too good to cut up so it has been saved until I find some replacement white-metal Dean bogies and better ventilators for it. It'll then go into the rake. What I did cut up was a slightly less mint Brake that came with a Third in blood and custard [the pair £11]. But what's it going to become ? I leave you with a final image as a clue. Believe me, improving the following is going to be a mother of a task, but we'll get there.....
Incidentally, if anybody knows a source of white-metal Dean bogies [8ft 6ins], I'd like to know. Thanks chaps.
Tony
Men with false teeth may yet speak the truth.......
Re: What's he up to now ......?
Oh, bisected and trisected vehicles...
... it does my old heart good, it does.
Chris.
... it does my old heart good, it does.
Chris.
"It's his madness that keeps him sane."
Re: What's he up to now ......?
I know Chris, I know......
The real fun starts with the reconstruction: the joints have to be seamless.
Tony
The real fun starts with the reconstruction: the joints have to be seamless.
Tony
Men with false teeth may yet speak the truth.......
Re: What's he up to now ......?
With the plasterers in, skimming over acres of hideous 70s artexed ceilings there was nothing much I could do so I decided to crack on with the clerestory conversion. I wasn't holding out high hopes as this was an experimental botch: it seems to have progressed reasonably so far however, with the usual commitments to compromise.
This is a risky stage however, things always look better before they are primed, when all sorts of flaws flop out of the woodwork. Anyway.....
The chassis was the first to receive attention. Now, for those unacquainted with the old Hornby 6-wheel chassis, it was fine in its day, with an ingenious design that allowed it to travel through the most impossible radii without derailing. The first photo shows how this arrangement worked. By today's standards it is ridiculously crude but that wasn't the reason for adapting it. As built, the chassis would not allow for the fitting of footboards because the centre axle-unit needs to move radially through even the slightest curve. This movement is actuated by rods attached to swivelling couplings. I wanted footboards, so the mechanism had to go.
I cut away the couplings, removed the articulating rods and pulled out the centre axle-unit to produce this [photo taken after footboards were fitted]:
The easiest way to remove the couplings and their brass fittings is to use a Xuron cutter. The centre axle-unit then had its wheel removed and the flanges filed down so that the wheels would rest flat on the rail top creating, effectively, a 4 wheel chassis. This sounds crude but it works well in practice and is virtually invisible from normal viewing distance. I retained, with some regret, the original Hornby wheels. Although plastic they are at least metal tyred but replacing them would be difficult because the axle-units are cast and inflexible, preventing scale wheels from being 'sprung' into brass bearings. Next photo shows the flange-less wheels.
And another look at the foot-boards. The lower ones will receive hangers ion due course.
The body was then cleaned up and glued together. Plastic strips were glued inside first to ensure a good alignment and the whole was then glued up, pressed against a steel rule to keep everything square. Not a bad join really, given that the units were cut by eye. Some Squadron putty will be applied later to fill the cracks and disguise the joints. It should be 95% successful.
Boy Scouts and other keen-eyed observers will notice that there is one window too many in each side. I thought about painting the errant windows white, to represent a toilet compartment. I've decided to leave it as it is however as most will never notice it. This was an inevitable consequence of using the Hornby chassis, which dictated the length of the body.
Finally, the roof was measured out and cut up and the photos above show a dry fit. It was also need some putty filler but should come through well.
More in due course..............
Tony
This is a risky stage however, things always look better before they are primed, when all sorts of flaws flop out of the woodwork. Anyway.....
The chassis was the first to receive attention. Now, for those unacquainted with the old Hornby 6-wheel chassis, it was fine in its day, with an ingenious design that allowed it to travel through the most impossible radii without derailing. The first photo shows how this arrangement worked. By today's standards it is ridiculously crude but that wasn't the reason for adapting it. As built, the chassis would not allow for the fitting of footboards because the centre axle-unit needs to move radially through even the slightest curve. This movement is actuated by rods attached to swivelling couplings. I wanted footboards, so the mechanism had to go.
I cut away the couplings, removed the articulating rods and pulled out the centre axle-unit to produce this [photo taken after footboards were fitted]:
The easiest way to remove the couplings and their brass fittings is to use a Xuron cutter. The centre axle-unit then had its wheel removed and the flanges filed down so that the wheels would rest flat on the rail top creating, effectively, a 4 wheel chassis. This sounds crude but it works well in practice and is virtually invisible from normal viewing distance. I retained, with some regret, the original Hornby wheels. Although plastic they are at least metal tyred but replacing them would be difficult because the axle-units are cast and inflexible, preventing scale wheels from being 'sprung' into brass bearings. Next photo shows the flange-less wheels.
And another look at the foot-boards. The lower ones will receive hangers ion due course.
The body was then cleaned up and glued together. Plastic strips were glued inside first to ensure a good alignment and the whole was then glued up, pressed against a steel rule to keep everything square. Not a bad join really, given that the units were cut by eye. Some Squadron putty will be applied later to fill the cracks and disguise the joints. It should be 95% successful.
Boy Scouts and other keen-eyed observers will notice that there is one window too many in each side. I thought about painting the errant windows white, to represent a toilet compartment. I've decided to leave it as it is however as most will never notice it. This was an inevitable consequence of using the Hornby chassis, which dictated the length of the body.
Finally, the roof was measured out and cut up and the photos above show a dry fit. It was also need some putty filler but should come through well.
More in due course..............
Tony
Men with false teeth may yet speak the truth.......
Re: What's he up to now ......?
I let the filler cure nicely over-night and then sanded it flush prior to an initial flash of primer. First result is quite good: some Milliput next, thinned down with a wet paint brush and that should be sufficient to fill the remaining seams prior to a final coat of primer.
In the meantime, hangers are needed for those foot-boards.
Tony
In the meantime, hangers are needed for those foot-boards.
Tony
Men with false teeth may yet speak the truth.......
Re: What's he up to now ......?
That looks super ...... I could do with a couple of them !!
Reminds me I must get on with my Ratio kits now I can spray outdoors.
Tony - Ref metal wheels for Lowmac wagons I have ordered some Alan Gibson sets
as directed to by dougalmac2. The size is not 100% accurate, but it's more important
that they sit the right height against adjoining stock. I'll let you know how I get on
when they arrive.
Geoff T.
Reminds me I must get on with my Ratio kits now I can spray outdoors.
Tony - Ref metal wheels for Lowmac wagons I have ordered some Alan Gibson sets
as directed to by dougalmac2. The size is not 100% accurate, but it's more important
that they sit the right height against adjoining stock. I'll let you know how I get on
when they arrive.
Geoff T.
Remember ... I know nothing about railways.
http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... 22&t=32187 and Another on http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... &sk=t&sd=a
http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... 22&t=32187 and Another on http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... &sk=t&sd=a
Re: What's he up to now ......?
Thanks Geoff - appreciated.
Lowmac wheels - would indeed be interested to hear how you get on.
Tony
Lowmac wheels - would indeed be interested to hear how you get on.
Tony
Men with false teeth may yet speak the truth.......
Re: What's he up to now ......?
Putting the body aside for a while I have carried on with the chassis. This is a labour of optimism but probably one which is not entirely unrealistic.........
Having attached the foot-board hangers and cleaned up some moulding flash, I primed and painted the chassis for a test run. With the original wheels inserted, it ran well, with the flangeless centre axle sitting atop the rail head and rotating properly. Obviously nowhere near as free-running as modern stock, the chassis nevertheless rolled without too much drag and so was acceptable from that perspective.
Two issues became apparent however. The ride height was out and consequently the chassis sat too high. The next photo compares the buffer height with an r-t-r tank engine. This was unacceptable. Secondly, the entire centre axle unit rocked back and forth whilst in motion and so could not be allowed to simply float on the clip that retained the axle. Some form of packing-out would be necessary to fix the unit at exactly the right height.
The overall ride-height issue would have to be solved through a little surgery as smaller wheels were not an option. This meant dismantling the chassis but it was unavoidable. The next photo shows how remedial work was to be undertaken: note the two small mouldings at each end of the top of the axle unit. These were plastic, part of the upper chassis moulding and they had to go to allow the axle-units to sit directly, flush, under the upper chassis moulding. The following photo shows them cut away from one end and at the other end remaining in place for comparison / identification.
The next photo shows the improved ride-height. A drop of about 1.5mm was achieved and whilst not perfect by any means, it is cosmetically an improvement. I'd rather a lower fit frankly but it's difficult to see how this could be achieved given the construction of the chassis. I'll live with it.
The final photo shows the completed and repainted chassis back on the rails, with the body a loose fit. Tie rods will be fitted to the W-irons in due course and the wheel edges painted to dull the nickel plate. It wasn't necessary to pack out the centre axle-unit in the end as it could now be glued directly under the chassis, like its fore and aft colleagues. It will need painting black though.
Tony
Having attached the foot-board hangers and cleaned up some moulding flash, I primed and painted the chassis for a test run. With the original wheels inserted, it ran well, with the flangeless centre axle sitting atop the rail head and rotating properly. Obviously nowhere near as free-running as modern stock, the chassis nevertheless rolled without too much drag and so was acceptable from that perspective.
Two issues became apparent however. The ride height was out and consequently the chassis sat too high. The next photo compares the buffer height with an r-t-r tank engine. This was unacceptable. Secondly, the entire centre axle unit rocked back and forth whilst in motion and so could not be allowed to simply float on the clip that retained the axle. Some form of packing-out would be necessary to fix the unit at exactly the right height.
The overall ride-height issue would have to be solved through a little surgery as smaller wheels were not an option. This meant dismantling the chassis but it was unavoidable. The next photo shows how remedial work was to be undertaken: note the two small mouldings at each end of the top of the axle unit. These were plastic, part of the upper chassis moulding and they had to go to allow the axle-units to sit directly, flush, under the upper chassis moulding. The following photo shows them cut away from one end and at the other end remaining in place for comparison / identification.
The next photo shows the improved ride-height. A drop of about 1.5mm was achieved and whilst not perfect by any means, it is cosmetically an improvement. I'd rather a lower fit frankly but it's difficult to see how this could be achieved given the construction of the chassis. I'll live with it.
The final photo shows the completed and repainted chassis back on the rails, with the body a loose fit. Tie rods will be fitted to the W-irons in due course and the wheel edges painted to dull the nickel plate. It wasn't necessary to pack out the centre axle-unit in the end as it could now be glued directly under the chassis, like its fore and aft colleagues. It will need painting black though.
Tony
Men with false teeth may yet speak the truth.......
Re: What's he up to now ......?
AN UPDATE
So many other things have got in the way of modelling over the past few weeks but I have managed to make some progress with the 6-wheeler and also start and nearly finish a significant upgrade to an old Triang Clerestory [the GWR-liveried model shown towards the beginning of this thread].
The 6-wheeler now awaits lettering before it is varnished, glazed, has internal partition walls and couplings fitted, the roof weathered and the body reunited with its chassis. In short, nearly done. It does sit rather high though. I wish I could solve that one but smaller wheels weren't an option and the metal chassis could not be reduced further. It may have to run alone if the K's white-metal coaches it was built to run with are much lower. We'll see. In the meantime......
The old Triang Clerestory has been transformed I think through the addition of Hornby Dean bogies and truss-rods / queen posts and underframe detail from one of the later Hornby corridor Clerestories. An expensive exercise you might think, one that requires the sacrifice of the newer Clerestory coach unless, like me, you acquire three for £22 via eBay and mostly recover your costs by selling the other two for a tenner each. The coach awaits lettering, couplings and varnishing before flush glazing is applied, compartment partitions added and the roof weathered. It has been fitted with sprung buffers and more realistic roof ventilators. The drop-lights have been picked out in faded mahogany. If you want variety, you jolly well have to go and build it.......
Both coaches will be lettered in the 1927-1934 style.
Tony
So many other things have got in the way of modelling over the past few weeks but I have managed to make some progress with the 6-wheeler and also start and nearly finish a significant upgrade to an old Triang Clerestory [the GWR-liveried model shown towards the beginning of this thread].
The 6-wheeler now awaits lettering before it is varnished, glazed, has internal partition walls and couplings fitted, the roof weathered and the body reunited with its chassis. In short, nearly done. It does sit rather high though. I wish I could solve that one but smaller wheels weren't an option and the metal chassis could not be reduced further. It may have to run alone if the K's white-metal coaches it was built to run with are much lower. We'll see. In the meantime......
The old Triang Clerestory has been transformed I think through the addition of Hornby Dean bogies and truss-rods / queen posts and underframe detail from one of the later Hornby corridor Clerestories. An expensive exercise you might think, one that requires the sacrifice of the newer Clerestory coach unless, like me, you acquire three for £22 via eBay and mostly recover your costs by selling the other two for a tenner each. The coach awaits lettering, couplings and varnishing before flush glazing is applied, compartment partitions added and the roof weathered. It has been fitted with sprung buffers and more realistic roof ventilators. The drop-lights have been picked out in faded mahogany. If you want variety, you jolly well have to go and build it.......
Both coaches will be lettered in the 1927-1934 style.
Tony
Men with false teeth may yet speak the truth.......
Re: What's he up to now ......?
These are looking superb, they carry the chocolate and cream livery really well and you've done a great job of covering up the joins!
- pointstaken
- Posts: 399
- Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:22 pm
- Location: Fleet, Hampshire
Re: What's he up to now ......?
Agree with skyblue - a superb job ! Joins? what joins?
Dennis
Dennis
I know nothing, but much I believe
Re: What's he up to now ......?
Thanks both - appreciated.
Tony
Tony
Men with false teeth may yet speak the truth.......
Re: What's he up to now ......?
UPDATE
The Triang Clerestory is all but complete now and just awaits insertion of compartment partitions and some glazing for the clerestory windows. I used Finecast flush-glazing for this coach: it's not perfect but no where near as prismatic as the lower enlarged photo shows. And at less that £3 a coach it's a no-brainer !
If I can source some more Dean bogies, I will do another one later. It's worth the effort I think.
The 6-wheeler is back to the workshop I'm afraid. I just couldn't cope with the height of the chassis and the model towers above it's compatriots. I am going to scratch-build a chassis using the original wheelsets. It may work, it may not. It's worth a bash though. After all, it's a hobby, not a race.....
Tony
The Triang Clerestory is all but complete now and just awaits insertion of compartment partitions and some glazing for the clerestory windows. I used Finecast flush-glazing for this coach: it's not perfect but no where near as prismatic as the lower enlarged photo shows. And at less that £3 a coach it's a no-brainer !
If I can source some more Dean bogies, I will do another one later. It's worth the effort I think.
The 6-wheeler is back to the workshop I'm afraid. I just couldn't cope with the height of the chassis and the model towers above it's compatriots. I am going to scratch-build a chassis using the original wheelsets. It may work, it may not. It's worth a bash though. After all, it's a hobby, not a race.....
Tony
Men with false teeth may yet speak the truth.......
- Bigglesof266
- Posts: 1026
- Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:59 am
- Location: Australia
Re: What's he up to now ......?
Your industry is <expletive omitted> amazing!
Re: What's he up to now ......?
Go on, insert that expletive. You know you want to !!!!
Tony
Tony
Men with false teeth may yet speak the truth.......