Matching printed black decals to black paint

[deeftrundle]

I am in the process of detailing several early BR OO steam locos in lined mixed traffic black.

Rather than use Fox/ModelMaster linings which I find messy and scrappy, or a lining pen which is too difficult for me, I decided to try producing my own decals of the lining + inner cab number or crest. I have done this with my own CAD system and the results are excellent. I am using Crafty Computer Paper white decal paper. I have a parameter-driven system for several loco classes.

The only problem I have is matching the black (within the lining) with the painted black (I am using Halfords satin black as top coat) of the loco body. It just never matches to my satisfaction. The decals are finished with satin varnish (in fact I have tried matt varnish with little difference). The printing uses full saturation black. I have tried Railmatch black as top coat but the decal black matches even less.

I was wondering whether anyone out there has done anything similar with satisfactory results and has some pearls of wisdom to offer.

Andy

[mattmay05]

I indeed I have....

[deeftrundle]

Matt,

Nice result. Would you mind letting me in on your methods ?
I couldn't find anything on your very impressive website.

In particular .....
Which black did you use for the top coat ?
What settings, other than the default, did you use at print time ?
Which printer did you use, inkjet or laser ?
Which decal paper did you use ?
Which sealing varnish did you use on the decals ?

I have to admit to trying many many combinations of the above parameters, without perfection as yet.

Andy

[mattmay05]

The paint used, was Halfords... or Humbrol satin black.

The transfers were made on photo studio like i do with all homemade transfers see my workbench thread its all on there.
The black is adjusted to get the right shade of back, its trail and error really, as you will never really get 100% with laser or inkjet inks.

I use a colour laser, same transfer paper as you believe it was the white backed type.
I use acrylic varnish by Vallejo, can't remember if it was matt or satin.

As i said above don't use the word perfection... as you won't achieve it... you will get close but never 100%.

You can see some transfers I made last month for a project: http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... &start=180
Normandys finishing and transfers: http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... 8&start=45

[tornado64]

the problem you are encountering is that black is seldom just black , it can be a bitch to match depending on not only colour mix but also on surface finnishes


try this experiment take a darkish blue simmilar to french ultramarine and a brown close to burn umber or raw umber then mix them together , you will get black !!

the degree of black is dependant on mix it can be mixed to the cool blue side or to the warm brown side , sometimes you can also get a green cast ,,

as opposed to paint printing ink is practicaly pure black as it is a difrent handling substance to paint paint even though seemingly black will always have slight leanings to either the blue or brown side

it would be difficult to match paint but printing ink will be close to impossible

what i would probably try is to try and determine the correct shade and alter your black areas to that colour on your computer art programme or take a photo of the intended model then eye dropper the paint colour and put that into the artworks black areas not forgetting to lighten or darken as needed

[Essex2Visuvesi]

Black is one of the hardest colours to match. Just ask any bodyshop

[deeftrundle]

Thanks to all.

Mixing my paint is not a road I particularly want to go down, so I shall experiment with the print colour first, leaning to blue or brown as suggested.

[thebritfarmer]

Can you just not print it onto water slide paper then you wouldn't have to worry about matching the black.

[deeftrundle]

Sorry, I don't think I understand. What do you mean by water slide paper ? Do you mean clear decal paper ?

I print the lining and the coloured (black) rectangular block within it onto white Crafty Computer Paper which gives me a nice solid decal to work with. I have to use white decal paper, as opposed to clear, because printers cannot print white and the lining contains white and pale grey.

The lining comprises white, grey and red from the outside in. I cut around the outer white of the decal and that gives me a very nice clean lining - as I have said the only issue is the match of the black within the lining rectangle to the black paint of the rest of the loco.

[mattmay05]

I find its mainly the finish that effects the colour, the transfer on my normandy above... was very different, until i put varnish on it which blends it all together... worth expirementing.

[thebritfarmer]

Sorry, I don't think I understand. What do you mean by water slide paper ? Do you mean clear decal paper ?

I print the lining and the coloured (black) rectangular block within it onto white Crafty Computer Paper which gives me a nice solid decal to work with. I have to use white decal paper, as opposed to clear, because printers cannot print white and the lining contains white and pale grey.

The lining comprises white, grey and red from the outside in. I cut around the outer white of the decal and that gives me a very nice clean lining - as I have said the only issue is the match of the black within the lining rectangle to the black paint of the rest of the loco.

Yes, that is what I was talking about.

[mikem64]

Hi Andy,

It's quite tough getting a printer to match colours correctly, I think you'll get a very close match but not 100%, unless I gave up too soon.

I had the same issue but was with my road markings which I printed onto sticky address labels, the double yellow lines & zebra crossing. I needed the grey colour which I painted my road surface mixed into the printed sections I was going too use.

So my method was to paint the road, take a photo & then use this photo in my Corel draw software. Once into Corel draw I made many boxes with 1cm squares all in one line. Starting with the middle square I used the colour pick tool & coloured that square from the photo road grey. To allow for correction I then went into the squares to the right of the middle starting point & made each square 1 shade lighter, I did the same to the squares on the left but made them one square darker. Looking at any two squares side by side you'll not notice any variation, but look at the full line & it really hits you in the colour change.

Print off the test squares & then offer them up to the real painted road surface (In your case the loco), one square will sort of fade into the background, that's your colour match, take the test strip back to your PC. Make your true images, in my case the road markings & with the colour picking tool select the correct colour from the test squares, print off & use.

Like I said not a true 100% match but it gets very close, hope you can understand my waffling.

Cheers Mike.

[deeftrundle]

Mike,
Thx. Worth a shot I think.
I really hadn't considered taking a snap of a satin blackened loco then popping that into PaintShopPro to get the RGB/HSV.
I could then, as you say, print a selection of test decals in my cad package with slightly different shades.
I will let you know.

[deeftrundle]

Finally I got a reasonable match. Good enough for my eyes anyway.
Printing is bog standard black (no color tweaking, just RGB #000) on a Laser printer (Samsung 3305W) to Crafty Computer Paper White Decal paper.
There is definitely a difference between black results on inkjet and laser.

I used Citadel Chaos Black undercoats and Halfords Satin Black topcoats on the locos.

Here are the results, on a converted Hornby/Triang L1 with additonal pipework, detailing and coupling, which for authenticity should never have been released in passenger green.



I think it was worth persevering.
Doing mixed traffic lining in decal form is a million times easier than using a bow pen or HMRS Pressfix sheet 22.
The only thing you can mess up is the positioning.

If anyone wants any bespoke Mixed Traffic Lining with emblems cab numbers and power classifications, let me know.
I will see what I can knock up. I may even try green one day !!