Seep point motors v Peco point motors.

Basic electrical and electronics, such as DC/Analog control.
br0d13
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Seep point motors v Peco point motors.

Postby br0d13 » Fri May 01, 2009 10:03 am

I would like to open this thread in discussion for the cons and pro's of each of these.

I have had used peco in the past, and they have been great except for the fact that make a clunk every time they get switched.

As for seep, i have not used them, but i am thinking of using them on my current layout under construction if they don't have the clunk like the peco.

Also, does anyone have a wiring diagram for the seep point motors?

Kind Regards, Brodie

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Flashbang
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Re: Seep point motors v Peco point motors.

Postby Flashbang » Fri May 01, 2009 12:51 pm

Hi
Seep PM1

Pros -
PM1 and PM4 have a built in single pole change over switch.
PM2 is just a basic motor without switching or self latching
PM4 version has a self latching mechanism and change over switch, this motor is designed for use points without any over centre springs fitted, where the motor needs to retain the point blades closed.
Printed Circuit Board (PCB) has pre drilled fixing holes.
Fair number of retailers selling them.

Cons -
Really only suitable for under baseboard mounting.
Change over switch mechanism is rather basic - A washer, held down by a spring, slides back and fore making contact between the common connection and left or right switches contact tabs.
All wiring connections need to be soldered.
Must be aligned perfectly with points moving tie bar to give good results.
Overall foot print is larger than the Peco PL10.
Large "Clunk" when operated.
Roughly the same coil resistance as the Peco PL10, so draws around 3.5 to 4.0 Amps at 12 to 16 volts.

Peco PL10
Pros -
Solid metal framed construction.
Available in four versions PL10 short length drive pin, PL10E with Extended drive pin, ideal for under baseboard mounting, PL10W (Short drive pin) with lower current drawing coils which is ideal for use with DCC accessory decoders. PL10WE as per PL10W but with long drive pin.
Adaptor plate - PL9 readily available to allow easier mounting below baseboard.
Adaptor plate - PL12 available to allow above baseboard mounting with a drive rod pre fitted.
Option of long or short drive pins for choice of mounting positions above or below baseboard.
Optional accessory switches - PL13 Single Pole change over or PL15 Double pole change over.
Solder or 'Push on' tags now available for ease of wiring.
Directly compatible to the similar R 8014 Hornby motor and their points.
Universally sold.
Similar to the PMx range of motor coil resistances, demanding current drains of around 3.5 to 4.0 per motor (Except PL10W range).

Cons -
PL13 change-over switch prone to reported failure to operate (Though in the 20 or so years I have used them I haven't found any problems).
Large "Clunk" when operated.
Need to link together one sides coil terminals on the return path.
PL13 and PL15 switches have to be glued onto the motors metal frame. (I use Superglue, but impact adhesive may equally be used).

I use both styles of motor and really don't find one any better than the other when used in similar situations.

Whenever possible wire a Capacitor Discharge Unit (CDU) into the operating circuit, as these provide that extra power oomph to move any sticky motors or points and they help prevent coil burn out should the switches contact remain accidentally made for too long. Only one CDU is needed for the whole layout normally.

Seep motors are wired -
A & B are the two coils (Normal & Reverse).
C is the coils return.
D & E are the connections from the change over switch.
F is the switches common connection. ('D' or 'E' makes with 'F' depending on the points position)

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zarniwhoop
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Re: Seep point motors v Peco point motors.

Postby zarniwhoop » Fri May 01, 2009 7:47 pm

In my experience, using a CDU mitigates the clunk on peco motors - there is still a click, but not anything likely to cause a "What on earth was that?" reaction.

ĸen

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Re: Seep point motors v Peco point motors.

Postby Essex2Visuvesi » Mon May 04, 2009 10:09 am

I have never used the peco motors but I have used the Seep ones and I find them to be reliable. The do need careful installation to get them working effectively. I have to agree on the the loud clunk as well.
Im using Fleishmann piccolo powered points now and they are very good (although they are surface mounted) there is still noise with the action but its more3 of a "snick" than a "clunk"
I think all solenoid based motors will make noise and as far as I see the only way to avoid this would be to use the likes of the tortoise slo motion point motor
Si quam primum vos operor non successio , impono

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THE CHIEF
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Re: Seep point motors v Peco point motors.

Postby THE CHIEF » Mon May 18, 2009 11:00 pm

Did anyone have a diagram for the peco motor?

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Flashbang
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Re: Seep point motors v Peco point motors.

Postby Flashbang » Wed May 20, 2009 12:10 pm

Yes, here it is using a Hornby R044 passing contact lever.
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Re: Seep point motors v Peco point motors.

Postby hobby boy » Wed May 20, 2009 6:07 pm

i think that the seep point motors are a bit too complicated but the peco motors work fine
I have this engine like the picture :) GWR 0-6-0 Pannier tank
Check out Andrew's layout Hookstoke Junction UPDATED! Should do more work as it's now the Easter Holidays :) After the holdiays are over, my layout won't get updated much Age = 15

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Class 66
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Re: Seep point motors v Peco point motors.

Postby Class 66 » Wed May 20, 2009 8:24 pm

hobby boy wrote:i think that the seep point motors are a bit too complicated but the peco motors work fine


Having used 10 Seep point motors on my layout I can safety say that they are so simple to wire up. So long as you get the basics right you can't go wrong!

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hobby boy
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Re: Seep point motors v Peco point motors.

Postby hobby boy » Fri May 22, 2009 8:36 pm

i'll have a go at using the seep point motors

Hobby Boy
I have this engine like the picture :) GWR 0-6-0 Pannier tank
Check out Andrew's layout Hookstoke Junction UPDATED! Should do more work as it's now the Easter Holidays :) After the holdiays are over, my layout won't get updated much Age = 15

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hobby boy
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Re: Seep point motors v Peco point motors.

Postby hobby boy » Thu May 28, 2009 6:39 am

i've now bought the seep PM2 point motor (no built in switch) and a hornby passing contact lever switch. I'll wire it up later and check if it works.

hobby boy
I have this engine like the picture :) GWR 0-6-0 Pannier tank
Check out Andrew's layout Hookstoke Junction UPDATED! Should do more work as it's now the Easter Holidays :) After the holdiays are over, my layout won't get updated much Age = 15

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Thunderbird
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Re: Seep point motors v Peco point motors.

Postby Thunderbird » Thu May 28, 2009 7:51 am

I've never used peco motors, only seep's.

One thing that i would say is that they can be a pig to align on double slips, but once you've got it right they seem to be fairly reliable. wiring is pretty easy, but I did have a few problems when soldering the wiring to the terminals on the motor due to them being close to the coil covers (but that was down to my lack of soldering skills, rather than the quality of the motor)
One other thing to point out (no pun intended) is that you have to snip the pin down, only do this when you are 100% sure you've got it in the right position and height (from personal experience of "over trimming" and needing to buy another)

definatly recommend using a CDU for multiple motors.
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hobby boy
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Re: Seep point motors v Peco point motors.

Postby hobby boy » Fri May 29, 2009 8:41 pm

hobby boy wrote:i've now bought the seep PM2 point motor (no built in switch) and a hornby passing contact lever switch. I'll wire it up later and check if it works.

hobby boy

i've now wired it up and
Flashbang wrote:Seep PM1
Cons -
Large "Clunk" when operated.

there is no large clunk, only a buzz. i know that the peco point motors make a large clunk but seep motors just buzz.
It is quite reliable and is held by screws.

Hobby Boy
I have this engine like the picture :) GWR 0-6-0 Pannier tank
Check out Andrew's layout Hookstoke Junction UPDATED! Should do more work as it's now the Easter Holidays :) After the holdiays are over, my layout won't get updated much Age = 15

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Flashbang
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Re: Seep point motors v Peco point motors.

Postby Flashbang » Fri May 29, 2009 9:17 pm

hobby boy wrote:
hobby boy wrote:i've now bought the seep PM2 point motor (no built in switch) and a hornby passing contact lever switch. I'll wire it up later and check if it works.

hobby boy

i've now wired it up and
Flashbang wrote:Seep PM1
Cons -
Large "Clunk" when operated.

there is no large clunk, only a buzz. i know that the peco point motors make a large clunk but seep motors just buzz.
It is quite reliable and is held by screws.

Hobby Boy

Your power supply may possibly be on the low side? 16 volts ac is the normal minimum and where a CDU is used a little higher is even better.
I have some ten of these (PM1) and they all make a clunk or click sound as they move over and of course buzz.
I use a KPC point transformer which provides 24 volt at 250ma ac feeding into a CDU, then out to DPDT sprung to centre centre off toggle switches. Wiring from the switches to the coils is 16/0.2mm with a 1.0mm solid wire common return from all motors. The average wire run from switch to motor is around 4 to 6 mtrs.
I have found them to be as reliable as a Peco PL10 fitted with a PL13 switch. Once they are positioned correctly. Their major problem is the rather poor quality of switching on the PM1 units - A washer held down by a spring slides across the printed circuit board tracks which can all to easily become high resistance. Quick wipe over with a fibre pen corrects the problem :D
The CDU delivers the added rapid pulse of power and that's what causes the click or cluck sound as the motors coil energises and throws the iron slug rapidly across. :D
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hobby boy
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Re: Seep point motors v Peco point motors.

Postby hobby boy » Sat May 30, 2009 9:25 am

Flashbang wrote:
hobby boy wrote:
hobby boy wrote:i've now bought the seep PM2 point motor (no built in switch) and a hornby passing contact lever switch. I'll wire it up later and check if it works.

hobby boy

i've now wired it up and
Flashbang wrote:Seep PM1
Cons -
Large "Clunk" when operated.

there is no large clunk, only a buzz. i know that the peco point motors make a large clunk but seep motors just buzz.
It is quite reliable and is held by screws.

Hobby Boy

Your power supply may possibly be on the low side? 16 volts ac is the normal minimum and where a CDU is used a little higher is even better.
I have some ten of these (PM1) and they all make a clunk or click sound as they move over and of course buzz.
I use a KPC point transformer which provides 24 volt at 250ma ac feeding into a CDU, then out to DPDT sprung to centre centre off toggle switches. Wiring from the switches to the coils is 16/0.2mm with a 1.0mm solid wire common return from all motors. The average wire run from switch to motor is around 4 to 6 mtrs.
I have found them to be as reliable as a Peco PL10 fitted with a PL13 switch. Once they are positioned correctly. Their major problem is the rather poor quality of switching on the PM1 units - A washer held down by a spring slides across the printed circuit board tracks which can all to easily become high resistance. Quick wipe over with a fibre pen corrects the problem :D
The CDU delivers the added rapid pulse of power and that's what causes the click or cluck sound as the motors coil energises and throws the iron slug rapidly across. :D

i don't have a CDU but use hornby passing contact switches. The voltage i use is 16volts ac - the same from a hornby accessory output. oh and i also use 24/0.2mm wire.
The reason i even bought this motor was that it was cheaper then the peco and hornby one. Peco motor - £4.95. Hornby motor - £4.50. Seep PM2 motor - £4.24.

Hobby Boy
I have this engine like the picture :) GWR 0-6-0 Pannier tank
Check out Andrew's layout Hookstoke Junction UPDATED! Should do more work as it's now the Easter Holidays :) After the holdiays are over, my layout won't get updated much Age = 15

MPenny
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Re: Seep point motors v Peco point motors.

Postby MPenny » Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:07 pm

Just got 4 seep PM2s.

Currently I'm using Hornby points, I know there are issues with these, but geometrically it's far easier (and cheaper with Hattons), to plan and build a layout.

I'll 'point' out (like the pun, heh!) that I'm an under-baseboard point motor virgin, having only used surface mounted points previously.

I was connecting them to a Lenz LS150 Accessory decoder
Anyway I digress...

Pros
Very easy to solder and wire, which for beginners is a huge plus.
Very small when attached to baseboard, not getting in the way of my droppers or anything.
Worked 1st time, no hassle at all.

Cons
Pretty tricky to line up when installing unless you are able to lie baseboard at an angle.
Big one for me - the metal arm was inceredibly tricky to shorten, normal clippers just wouldnt cut through it at all, was considering getting my saw until it finally cut.

In all, I'm fairly pleased, the big issue for me is definitely not cutting easily, although this kind of guantees it won't bend over time I think, just ordered a few more for installation over the next few weeks or so


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