Are Bachmann decoders any good?

[pete12345]

More specifically, the 3-function one. I have a few older locos I'd like to convert to DCC (my current MPD is wired up for DC at the moment) and I'd like to do them all at about the same time. Mostly they're hornby, tender drive, with a Bachmann Dean Goods, Lima 31 and Mainline 56 thrown in. I'm not after any fancy features at the moment, but at the same time I don't want rubbish that will make the locos uncontrollable. Is this decoder decent enough or am I better off looking elsewhere?

Cheers

Pete

[slackbladder]

Hi Pete. I'm no expert but have fitted a few to some of my stock and to be honest they have not been a problem.. The only one that has (slight mind you) came fitted in a Bachmann 4MT.. it was ok out the box and for a month or so then recently started to run a tad erratic, I cleaned everything, same problem, I then found the cure,,, remove any suppressors (the little yellow things) its been fine since. Obviously my warranty isnt though.

The one slight drawback for you though could be that they are not very small so if space is tight you may need a smaller decoder.

sb

[pete12345]

I've had a look inside the locos, and I think there's only one which will pose a problem. The other tender drives have a pair of ballast weights which can be cut down to make room. The Dean Goods has a similar weight inside the boiler. Cutting a portion of this away should mean I can fit a decoder in the firebox. The diesels of course have loads of space and working lights on the 56

[m8internet]

Which Bachmann decoder are you looking at?

I bought one 36-558 for use in my N gauge items, as it was one of the lowest priced NEM651 6 pin decoders I have seen
Fitting was easy, but it would not program first time round
I then removed it and refitted, it worked fine

I then bought a further batch of four and these have now been fitted to two locos and two DVTs
Equally, I have not yet seen a decoder purely for functions around the same price, so the motor function is wasted and not used!

The locos also seem to have an acceleration and deceleration curve by default, something my other decoders have not come with

[Flashbang]

Hi
The Bachmann 36-553 three function decoder offers some very limited motor control and it uses Bemf too, so that should help.

But my "Rule of thumb" where older locos and decoder choice are concerned is - The older the loco the better quality of decoder to be used. As a better quality decoder offers the user far more options to "tweak" the CVs for fine motor control. Assuming your DCC system allows CVs to be altered? If it doesn't then you wont gain a lot really!

I would go for TCS or Digitrax decoders or even a Lenz Silver

Don't forget the locos MUST run faultlessly on dc powered rails before a conversion is undertaken. As a poor dc running loco will normally become far worse on DCC!

[Bigglesof266]

G'day Pete,

At current count, I now have 21 locos. However I'll issue a caveat with that, that they are all current models and all were purchased new over the past 12 months. The majority including Hornby locos, have been fitted with Bachmann -553 or -554 decoders. Whilst sooner or later I'll probably get a dud or have one fail, as yet, I have still to encounter an operational malfunction with a Bachmann decoder. I will upgrade more to TCS et al as needs must and pricing ameliorates as it will in time just as it will with sound decoders. But presently kitting with TCS effectively doubles the decoder kitout cost per unit given available sources of product from here, so that Bachmann suffice for my current general use. Their price is certainly right, they are reliable, but in the particular I think their BEMF implementation notably superior in operation.

I prefer them by far to Hornby's 'equivalent' budget R8249 or R8215 decoders of which I have several, all bar one (R8249) decoder a consequence of being obtained via a DCC Fitted loco. Physically, Bachmann's -553 is fractionally larger. But in hand with that, QC seems better than Hornby's and construction is more robust. I haven't found fitment a problem in anything DCC Ready yet.

I think the acid pre-test in yoru situ is how well your locos already run on DC as Flashbang said. If they run fine and you remove the suppressors when fitting the decoder, on balance it suggests should run OK under DCC with a Bachmann decoder. Of course in the final analysis only baking the pudding and putting it to the taste test will reveal whether the ingredients were of sufficient quality to honour the recipe.

[Mountain]

I preferred the 2 function ones as one could dim the lights.

[Bigmet]

Wow, that's a blast from the past. Still have a number of the Bach 36-553 -554 in diesel models, bought when they were a steal, under half the cost for equivalent drive quality from other brands. But there were limitations, the BEMF was optimised for large motors with flywheels, and became 'granular' at low speed if the constants were reset to cope with a small motor, and the range of CV's 3 and 4 was too limited at 63 steps, neither of which suited many steam models, nor my chosen operational set up for steam using plenty of inertia simulation. And then Bachmann realised that they would sell for a lot more, and shortly before they were superseded in their range, the price increased to much the same as Lenz Standard and Zimo MX63 - and these were much superior in all respects.

[Mountain]

Yes. They were as low as £7.50 at one time but it was because they were heavily subsidized by the German government via the EU Lenz were also subsidized down to half price as you should have seen the Lenz decoder prices back before the subsidy came in as I have a 1999-2000 Lenz catalogue and the prices were more than locos for the basic decoders. (I got into DCC at the tail end of the year 2000 when the Lenz dealer (McKay Models) told me the decoder prices were going to fall to more "Reasonable" levels. Then the most basic Lenz decoders (Way before the Gold and Silver ones came in) went right down to just over £15 which a typical loco in 00 in those days was £40 for Lima diesels (£45+ for limited edition Lima diesels), £46 for the then new centrally motored Bachmann class 46 with drive at both ends... Hornby diesels were just over that price but Hornby diesels were known to cost a bit more than Lima and to be honest, Lima were the better product as Hornby class 37's and 47's used to ride too high on their chassis... But these £15 decoders were in such high demand that it took me a year or two of buying "Any" decoder (Usually expensive Lenz ones at around £35 each as only they were available and they were half price(!), and if really lucky, I could get an 8 pin version of the £15 decoders for around £17.95 or £17? and cut the plug off. (Was another five years before British Bachmann locos had decoder sockets, and it took at least 6+ years before Hornby had them! I remembering contacting Gaugemaster and other main manufacturers to ask if they would be going into DCC (Before I bought a DCC system as I was hanging back before buying a control system as Lenz was actually not my first choice... I contacted another DCC system manufacturer and they were not being produced as they were having factory issues. Was told to phone back in a month so I did and the lady answering the phone was so rude to me when I hardly said anything. Her language! So I decided to avoid that manufacturer and Lenz was my second choice as they had a UK supplier. The other two DCC systems were only available from Germany or the USA (Marklin and Digitrax). So I phoned the Scottish Lenz importer and he was so nice and friendly I there and then ordered a Lenz Compact to try out DCC. (Soon after I ordered their top of the range set 01 and a cable to use the Compact as a slave "Handset" (Slightly to large to fit in the hand). Actually, even though I also purchased an additional two set 02 handsets when I saw a pair offered secondhand, and a new 5 amp booster so I had more than enough for a big layout as I could if wanted to push out 8 amps...
But controller wize, I found myself turning to the lovely little Compact as it was so easy to use! (The set 01 controller was the one to go to for more complex programming)...
But the only drawback to the Lenz Compact are 99 loco addresses (Other Lenz controllers do 9999) and it only has three functions. Other than that I would not hesitate to say to anyone who wants DCC and is not bothered about DCC sound, look for a secondhand Lenz Compact. They are really good little 2.5amp output DCC controllers and secondhand they are so cheap to buy, only needing a suitable transformer.

The other beautiful to use controller was the basic Bachmann DCC controller in their sets, but sadly it was just too limiting with ONLY 9 DCC loco addresses! (If one has less than 9 locos and one is not getting any more, than those controllers are lovely to use... BUT if one wants more locos, and ones fleet is less than 99 locos, then get the Lenz Compact as the ideal secondhand absolute bargain purchase!

Since then I have found by watching others at exhibitions using their more modern systems and trying the odd system myself (Though I have only tried two other systems briefly and both were supposed to be the best (A G scale garden railway where every few years they bought a new system to keep up with modern technology... (I don't know why they insisted on doing this as they don't seem to know what they are doing no dissrespect to them as their first DCC system did more than they will ever need and not a single loco purchase or upgrade has taken place since then)), but as for DCC and control systems, my more complicated Lenz top of the range set can do what they need and compared to theirs, seems to me to be more straightforward to use even if it does take a while to learn how to use it... (The simpler Lenz Compact I have almost anyone can use without any training!)

But to me the flaw with DCC is that most systems need a handbook or training for people to learn to use them, and they also have frustrating time trying to remember their locos DCC address. There are lovely controllers that show loco pictures "If one has a standard RTR loco which is relitively modern from a well known brand". A very good idea, but one really needs to put ones own pictures on...

BUT this is when one realizes that DCC has just made controlling ones trains far too complicated, and one starts longing in ones heart to go back to DC....
A few simple nice sounding cluncky toggle switches and a control knob and a direction switch... One needs nothing more!

" Come back DC! All is forgiven! I just want to run my trains!!! "

Which is a direction I returned to in the last decade!

(I am not against DCC. Yes, I have been there and tried that and also had DCC sound which in those days costs two and a half times more than the loco!... (I waited until Bachmann made a 37 with sound and bought that as it was overall cheaper, but still cost a lot, and the sound added a whole new element BUT then all ones other "Silent" locos felt obsolite... DCC expenses were getting silly! But those were the days when I had a nice income).

But I really missed wiring my layout for DC because I loved the clever use of track sections in just the right places to make it look like one had command control. (One only will ever need to run one loco up to anothers buffers in certain places on ones layout). So to me, I had an inward longing back to DC and it was personal! Something I can't explain...)

But to summerize. If one wants a cheap taster into DCC that can also control DCC points, buy a secondhand Lenz Compact or something similar. Do not spend too much money. Try it out! Then decide if one wants more, one will then know what direction one wants to go in. The Compact will actually do most of what one needs... Only DCC sound needs more functions but one can still run sound locos on it... Just one will only access the first three functions...
My advice also is that if one sees a sound decoder with 30+ functions, one DOES NOT NEED a 30+ function DCC controller to access the sounds. One simply programs the individual sounds one wants access to into the sound decoder settings (And one can change these as one gets bored if one likes)... All one needs is a DCC system that can access these areas in its programming such as thre Lenz set 01 or set 100 (Pretty sure the set 02 and set 90 could do this as well)... Think most of the better DCC controllers can access most programming variables on DCC decoders. DO NOT BUY AN EXPENSIVE DCC SYSTEM THAT CAN'T ACCESS ALL THE AVAILABLE PROGRAMMING VARIABLES. As one will find one has to take ones loco to someone else with a better system to program it! (Ok. Is do-able that way but one could do with a system one cando it oneself).
A very simple DCC system may not do this but one won't be wanting to run sound. (I actually programmed my sound decoder to do function 0 = lights on and off. Function 1 = engine on and off. Function 2 = two tone horn sound... I did this via my better Lenz system so I could access these three on the simple Lenz Compact controller so I had access to the most used sounds! So one has an idea of what is possible...
Therefore I conclude that:

"PROGRAMMING ACCESSIBILITY IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE NUMBER OF DCC FUNCTIONS THE CONTROLLER HAS".

I hope this helps?