Tender Drive Evening Star poor performer

[Ken Shabby]

I recently bought a Hornby Evening Star with the later style of Ringfield motor in the tender.. I'd estimate it dates from the early eighties.
There seems to be a problem with the motor. I've been running it with a test train of 20 wagons, and it frequently slips to a halt. I tried several other tender drive Hornby locos with the same train ( Schools, Duchess and Black Five) , and they had no trouble with it.
The traction tyres are in good condition and are free from grease and the gears seem to mesh OK with the tender wheels, also the loco wheels are very free running..
I've dismantled the motor multiple times this afternoon and it's no better.
All I can think of is the connection to the loco is worn , and this is maybe slightly lifting the front set of tenders wheels, or the motor gears are worn.
I'm out of ideas, so any suggestions would be most welcome.
Thanks,
Ken

[aleopardstail]

at a guess the magnet in the motor is to blame, likely degraded somewhat over time.

there are options to stick 6V or 12V "CD" motors in there, with kits on eBay that will do a tender drive Ringfield, had a D49 that didn't lack power but gods was noisy and a motor swap fixed that. it wasn't a massive job, does involve a soldering iron though.

not sure if you can get just a replacement for the magnet

[Mountain]

Gear alignment? Trying to remsmber as I know some Lima motors needed the spring that holds the gears to be aligned correctly and they were sensitive to the angle of this retaining piece of metal. Can't remember with Hornby...
The actual traction tyres would only effect its pulling power and not the general running. Traction tyres can look great but slip because the rubber itself has aged without any visible effects of aging. New tyres and can almost doubls the pulling power of the loco.
Now the lifting of wheels if something does not sit right can make the loco seemingly run ok but on certain parts of the layout it may be effected...

Just a question. Is it hardwired to DCC? If so, turn off the inertia and back EMF settings. (Set them to the lowest possible figure). I just say this as it can cause issues as with DCC, brief interuptions can start the whole inertia cycle again so it will be go...stop..... slowly going again.... stop type of effect.

[GeraldH]

As Mountain has mentioned traction tyres can look OK, but may have hardened and the wheels can rotate within them. I've had this happen a few times on older Ringfield locos. If the back to backs have been increased to negotiate more modern points, the gears on the tender wheels may be disengaging with the intermediate gears. Putting small washers on the driving axles on the non-geared side will resolve this.

[Bigmet]

...it frequently slips to a halt...

That is unfortunately not enough of a fault description for anyone not present when it happens to understand what is likely to be the cause.
I would guess that it means motor running, driven wheels turning but slipping on rails, but an equally valid reading is 'motor running, something internal slipping so driven wheels are not turning'.

I would suggest as a first step trying one of the good tender drives with the 9F loco, and the 9F tender drive with another loco, to see what these combinations do. Seen any number of draggy Hornby push along steamers over the years, defeating the tender drive, and the 9F is the worst of the lot for this problem.

[Flashbang]

Frequently, Hornby Tender drive motors suffer from slipping of the small gear cog fitted onto the Ringfield motors drive shaft. Especially if it's a grey coloured gear cog. If it's noted to be slipping then two options. 1) Obtain a brass replacement cog and carefully fit that - it will be a very tight push on fit. Or 2) Carefully remove the existing cog, thoroughly clean the motor shaft and the inside of the gear cog to remove any oil / grease etc and take the opportunity to lightly lubricate the bearing where the motor drive shaft emerges from the casing, then apply a tiny spot of super glue onto the shafts end. Press on the cog ensuring it meshes correctly with the plastic gears and also it doesn't touch the motor casing/bearing. Leave for at least and hour and ideally overnight, then test.

Also the Ringfield motor magnet can become weak. Here you may be able to obtain a replacement or replace the whole motor with a conversion kit sold specially to fit tender drive locos.

Spares etc https://www.strathpefferjunction.com/pr ... sion-kits/
or
https://www.petersspares.com/c/hornby

[Ken Shabby]

Thanks to everyone who has offered advice, the layout is not DCC.
This morning I found the traction tyres did need replacing and once this was done the haulage problem disappeared.
In the meant time I'd stripped and cleaned the motor bogie and checked everything.
I then tested the 9F tender with my Schools class and it ran without any problems. This still isn't the case when the 9F loco and tender were tested together. Now that the light is better in the railway room, I could see that at 2 locations on the layout the tender front wheels were being slightly lifted off the railways. Because of the design of the loco where the front of the tender chassis sits under the cab, this is not immediately noticeable.
Soon after this the loco either derails itself or the front few wagons. This lifting would explain why the loco would slip to a halt. I think the new traction tyres are now overriding this.
I now think the loco to tender draw bar may be at fault, I know that these can become unreliable with age.
I also double checked that the motor block was correctly clipped into the plastic chassis, and found it was perfectly level. I'll have another look at the loco tomorrow morning.

Thanks Ken

[Ken Shabby]

I've spent a fair amount of time tinkering with the 9F since I last posted, this is what I found.
1.) I was wrong , the gears weren't meshing properly, this was causing lose of power to one set of wheels on a curve, which annoyingly is in a tunnel.

2.) The draw bar between the loco and tender seems quite worn. I've adjusted it but it will eventually need replacing.

3.) The unpowered floppy centre wheels on the tender motor were just making things worse. I replaced them .with plastic Mainline coach wheels with the flanges removed.

4.) The tender has a very slight lean to one side. I think this is because the tender has been taken apart many times
( mainly by me over the last week), and the plastic chassis has become worn. Around the holes where the motor clips in. I can live with this for the time being.

Now that all of the above have been identified and put right,
the loco runs very nicely indeed.

Ken

[Mountain]

Really glad it is working. Is nice getting them to run!