Simon Kohler to leave Hornby. Again!

[centenary]

And now (well about a fortnight ago, actually!) Montana Hoeren has announced she is leaving Hornby in August to pursue new career avenues.

Sounds like Hornby have lost something like £7m on the TT:120 fiasco. Last I heard, Hornby were scrambling around the model shops almost begging them to come on board as TT:120 sellers following the short sighted (imho) decision to only sell this direct.

Sorry if you already knew the above, I just saw a vid released last night with this news.

Love to know where that all came from (and don't say it's in the accounts, it's not and there's no video which says that either). Hornby made a decision at the outset that TT120 was to be done initially via direct sales to establish the scale and many model shop owners, though miffed, also admitted that they wouldn't have stocked it as it represented too much financial risk. It's now established and they've chosen several shops to sell it from, they started with German shops (TT is big over there) and now some UK shops. It was always a long term (think 5 years +) project and we're one year in, so far too early to judge it a success or failure, judging by the demand so far it would seem more a success than failure.

(Lesson to be learnt, don't believe everything you read/hear on social media!)

Reads like it could have been written by Hornby's PR department

[End2end]

Just an observation.
Gaugemaster had Hornby TT rolling stock on the shelves the last time I was there a couple of weeks ago.
Some of the coaches were stacked next to Hornby 00 coaches so I could see the size difference.
Thanks
End2end

[Bigmet]

Certainly of interest that Hornby's TT has now been sighted on the shelves of one of the UK's major retailers.

How it performs commercially for Hornby, only those inside that business know. Give it five years and we customers will know, one way or the other.

[Bufferstop]

There's sufficient interest in Europe for the same scale, for Peco to have included 12mm track for many years. I always thought that the demise of the Triang TT3 was to a large extent due to there being zero market for it outside of the UK.

[Mountain]

It will be very interesting to see if ittakes off beyond the initial launch because sometimes things take off and are a success and other times they are not. No matter how much homework one has done, the only real way is to try is, so ten out of ten to Hornby for doing that. Time will tell if it will survive in the long term. At one time 00 was the new creation. 4mm scale modelling had been around certainly since the 1930's and before but it was Hornby's predecessor that really put this scale and gauge on the map.
Marklin put Z gauge on thr map, and there are many others who were not the first, but were the first to put their larger scale investments in the venture in the hope it would succeed.
There have been scales and gauges that were popular foe a while but didn't develop into a long term success. American 00 is one such example which dissapeared when H0 became popular, as H0 ran on the same gauge as the newly developed 00. American 00 ran on the more accurate but ever so slightly over-wide gauge of 19mm, and I have seen some of these giant 4mm scale American models and thy are massive! A Baldwin 4-8-4 absolutely dwarfs a Gresley pacific making it look like it is in another scale, but it isn't! And the weight of those metal American built models! Feels like four or five times the weight of a Hornby Dublo 3-rail model! A Hornby Dublo pacific is a similar weight and size to just the American tender!

S scale is another contender for a scale which is modelled in and has a following, but didn't take off in the numbers as expected so commercial RTR interest was somewhat limited I am told. I have never knowingly seen it myself. Yet S scale to America was like Triang TT to Britain. Sort of came and went.... But now TT3 is here! Actually am somewhat puzzled why the continental version was chosen as the new choice, but I guess if it broadens the potential then it is an idea!

[Bigmet]

...Actually am somewhat puzzled why the continental version was chosen as the new choice...

Because it was the sensible thing to do. TT120 is long established and well proven in Northern Europe, so all the technique was available: track systems, rail and wheel standards, coupling system all 'off the shelf' for Hornby to utilise. And then the competition for UK product is near non-existent, not fighting a dozen other RTR brands for customer attention.

We have been here before. Hornby clearly made a probe into N with resin buildings and their Arnold subsidiary Brighton Belle, but must have found the going 'unwelcoming' as it went no further. The test of the future of UK TT120 will be significant RTR competitor entries. If these don't emerge in the next couple of years, that means the UK market for TT120 is too small to sustain the sales volume Hornby need.

[End2end]

TT120 is long established and well proven in Northern Europe,

With my amateur eyes it seems other manufacturers (and sellers) are bringing their pre-existing TT items to the fore to remind modellers...
"We produce (or sell) TT too that can go alongside the newly introduce Hornby TT range"
Again just another observation.
Thanks
End2end

[centenary]

The premise behind Hornby's TT:120 scale is well known: It is / was, according to Kohler and Hornby, aimed at new entrants to model railways who dont have the spare space for an OO scale layout.

I question the success of Hornby's TT premise based on that because I dont think there are sufficient 'new entrants' to model railways who will go for space saving or maximising, smaller models. Nor do I think a sizable minority of OO scalers will buy TT beyond a starter set if at all.

TT got good publicity with just about every major You Tube channel devoted to model railways 'getting' a TT starter set and singing its praise. They would do that though wouldnt they because they want the next OO scale Hornby model to review and keep the cycle going.

Are European TT modellers going to buy Hornby models to run on their layout? Again, I cannot see many doing that. I dont think the future of Hornby TT is very bright at all.

[b308]

Deleted - see below.

[b308]

I question the success of Hornby's TT premise based on that because I dont think there are sufficient 'new entrants' to model railways who will go for space saving or maximising, smaller models. Nor do I think a sizable minority of OO scalers will buy TT beyond a starter set if at all.

Are European TT modellers going to buy Hornby models to run on their layout? Again, I cannot see many doing that. I dont think the future of Hornby TT is very bright at all.

If you'd taken time to do some proper research you'd know that they've sold out every run they've done so far and there are an awful lot of "new railway modellers" on FB if you care to look at the TT120 groups.

Again your lack of research astounds me, they have sold many sets to EU countries and there are over 5 shops in Germany that stock it. The modellers I've spoken to over there seem very happy with their purchases as well.

Centenary, I don't object to your posting but if you are going to make sweeping statements knocking the scale and Hornby like you have been at least do some research first. I'm nothing to do with Hornby except as a very satisfied purchaser of Hornby, Arnold and Piko TT stuff and am currently building a layout in the scale. So I've been following it since it's launch and it's saddened me that there are a small number of people who seem to have it in for Hornby and TT120, i don't know why but I do know it's becoming boring to keep having to correct misinformation about both.

I now know why i stopped coming on this forum, the knockers were out in force when it was first announced and they seem to have stayed around regrettably.

People should remember that the forum is to help New railway Modellers into the hobby, continual knocking of a scale is not doing that and also paints a very poor image of the hobby in general.

[Mountain]

Is TT120 the same gauge as H0m? Or does H0m share the same gauge as TT3? H0m is a gauge of 12mm while H0e is 9mm. I can't recall what TT3 or TT120 is as I am getting confused between the two TT's.

Regarding what I have seen with the new TT is impressive. The only negative I can see is the couplings are a little too visual, but I understand as this is an European standard in TT120, it was a sensible compromise. I just personally thought it was an opportunity with the new British models in this scale to use something less visually noticable. Is the only way I can fault it, as as models are concerned, they look grand!

(I was initially concerned that the model shops were being bypassed, but as this was only temporary to get the venture established, I do see that this was a sensible idea.

[centenary]

I question the success of Hornby's TT premise based on that because I dont think there are sufficient 'new entrants' to model railways who will go for space saving or maximising, smaller models. Nor do I think a sizable minority of OO scalers will buy TT beyond a starter set if at all.

Are European TT modellers going to buy Hornby models to run on their layout? Again, I cannot see many doing that. I dont think the future of Hornby TT is very bright at all.

If you'd taken time to do some proper research you'd know that they've sold out every run they've done so far and there are an awful lot of "new railway modellers" on FB if you care to look at the TT120 groups.

Again your lack of research astounds me, they have sold many sets to EU countries and there are over 5 shops in Germany that stock it. The modellers I've spoken to over there seem very happy with their purchases as well.

Centenary, I don't object to your posting but if you are going to make sweeping statements knocking the scale and Hornby like you have been at least do some research first. I'm nothing to do with Hornby except as a very satisfied purchaser of Hornby, Arnold and Piko TT stuff and am currently building a layout in the scale. So I've been following it since it's launch and it's saddened me that there are a small number of people who seem to have it in for Hornby and TT120, i don't know why but I do know it's becoming boring to keep having to correct misinformation about both.

I now know why i stopped coming on this forum, the knockers were out in force when it was first announced and they seem to have stayed around regrettably.

People should remember that the forum is to help New railway Modellers into the hobby, continual knocking of a scale is not doing that and also paints a very poor image of the hobby in general.

My word, getting a bit uptight, arent we?

If you think TT is going to be great, knock yourself out. It's ok if you think the sun shines out of Hornby's or any other manufacturer's bum. I dont really care if Hornby have lost £7m or not on TT. Im not interested in it and Im not buying it. If you are, good for you.

Once again, sounds like a defence straight from Hornby PR department

[Mountain]

If it will work or not, time will tell but if they didn't give it a go how would they know? It may secure the companies future or may be a disaster. If they don't take the plunge they will stagnate and eventually die. So on behalf of the company itself, trying the idea is a good long term option to go by.

I honestly do not know if it will work or not because one side of me is sceptical while the other side of me is hopeful that it can work, and if anyone can it is Hornby due to the following they have as a company. (In other words, if Hornby can't do it on a decent scale enough for it to work, then not many others out there who could do it on the scale needed to make it a success).

I do have an idea that will very likely appeal to both railway modellers and the youthful generation as being the next big thing, but not knowing how to share it and being caught out in the past where ideas have been stolen and are seen in use on TV adverts today, it is probably an idea best left alone.

[b308]

My word, getting a bit uptight, arent we?

If you think TT is going to be great, knock yourself out. It's ok if you think the sun shines out of Hornby's or any other manufacturer's bum. I dont really care if Hornby have lost £7m or not on TT. Im not interested in it and Im not buying it. If you are, good for you.

Once again, sounds like a defence straight from Hornby PR department

If you're so uninterested in it why knock it! As i said I've been modelling in the scale for many years, I know it's history and I have watched closely Hornby's (and Peco's) entrance into it. Yes, I am pleased they have decided to make it, it allows a me to make a British TT layout at last, and yes I've bought some of their stuff. But I've also criticised some of the early quality control, which, based on recent purchases, seems to have been sorted. But also when i make comments about something I try to ensure that I get my facts right and not just accept as fact what others have said. If correcting misinformation (which you continue to plug!) is somehow construed as being part of Hornby's PR department then I'm guilty and want my paycheque!

Mountain, yes TT has the same gauge as H0m, 12mm, it's where the modellers of H0m got their gauge from as it pre-dates it. Like 009 H0 modellers using 12mm gauge is a compromise scale/gauge and is used by modellers of 1067mm gauge as well as for 1000mm gauge.

[centenary]

My word, getting a bit uptight, arent we?

If you think TT is going to be great, knock yourself out. It's ok if you think the sun shines out of Hornby's or any other manufacturer's bum. I dont really care if Hornby have lost £7m or not on TT. Im not interested in it and Im not buying it. If you are, good for you.

Once again, sounds like a defence straight from Hornby PR department

If you're so uninterested in it why knock it! As i said I've been modelling in the scale for many years, I know it's history and I have watched closely Hornby's (and Peco's) entrance into it. Yes, I am pleased they have decided to make it, it allows a me to make a British TT layout at last, and yes I've bought some of their stuff. But I've also criticised some of the early quality control, which, based on recent purchases, seems to have been sorted. But also when i make comments about something I try to ensure that I get my facts right and not just accept as fact what others have said. If correcting misinformation (which you continue to plug!) is somehow construed as being part of Hornby's PR department then I'm guilty and want my paycheque!

Mountain, yes TT has the same gauge as H0m, 12mm, it's where the modellers of H0m got their gauge from as it pre-dates it. Like 009 H0 modellers using 12mm gauge is a compromise scale/gauge and is used by modellers of 1067mm gauge as well as for 1000mm gauge.

It's really weird you say I 'knock it' when all I did was make a comment. It seems Hornby's PR department and its friends are hyper sensitive to comments they do not themselves like. Well sorry, you'll just have to get used to it.

Overall, I think Hornby is good with OO scale kettles, not so good with their diesel range especially the wheel profile and appearance which looks clunky compared to the competition. I think Hornby's new bluetooth \ wireless DCC control is an innovation and wonder why other manufacturers havent brought their own products to market yet.

You see I do my research and not to a skim level either only Im not going to do research that satisfies your demands or criteria. Despite what you claim, I do not think TT will be a winner. Hornby have at least given it chance by opening the wholesale market up to retailers which may give TT the kiss of life. If they hadnt, I think TT's outlook would have been deader than a Dodo.

The question really to be answered if why Hornby launched and intended TT to be direct sales only then, changed tack. I think the reasons are pretty obvious. Others can disagree if they wish.