coupling problem

[JohnDisdle]

After buying a Backmann and Mainline mineral wagons, I have had to replace the couplings in order to couple up to my Hornby wagons.
Can anyone tell me please, if any other manufacturers wagons will couple directly to Hornby, without modification. It's a bit of a minefield to know what to buy second-hand, without the hassle.
Thanks in advance....

[Bigmet]

This is a minefield*. If your Hornby wagons are the standard setters for your layout, then what couplers do these Hornby wagons have?

If it is the old style 'large as possible' type, then you are pretty much restricted to either purchasing more of the same; whether from the few currently produced items with this style now largely in Hornby's Railroad range, and s/h product by Triang/Hornby and Wrenn; or DIY fitting of the old style couplers to other manufacturer's products.

If your Hornby wagons have NEM coupler pockets, then best bet is to standardise on whichever manufacturer's NEM fitting couplers are going to dominate on your layout. (I went 100% Bachmann, because it was evident to me when Bachmann embarked on their 'Blue Riband' programme that I would buy more of these than all other wagons from all sources combined on my layout: so the cheapest way forward was to use the coupler fitted to these.)

*Why is it a minefield? Because there is no standard for the UK tension lock coupler. All the many variant patterns will all 'sort of work together', albeit very unreliably. The owner has to decide if this is acceptable, and if not decide on the path to an acceptable solution. What I found by experiment was that 'no variation' was the path to reliability. Using one manufacturer's pattern was the way forward. Obviously if operating 'block trains' that never alter information, exclusive use of a single manufacturer's coupler within that train will be equally reliable.

[JohnDisdle]

Hi Bigmet.

Thanks for your reply.

Almost all my wagons have the Hornby medium width coupling. The remaining few, have the newer NEM coupling.

I have bought a pack of medium, and the NEM pockets. Juggling with strips of plasticard, I can make them fit. But woudn't it be nice, if there was a standard. Only buying Honby wagons, is the obvious answer.

[Bufferstop]

Hornby's narrow NEM couplers have a slightly longer hook than others use, they are also made of magnetic steel whereas most others are plastic or non magnetic. The extra length means that the hook rides up onto the back of the coupler and can become trapped if there is a slight overhang of the body above the buffer beam. The answer is to settle on one type or the other. I chose the Bachmann one as it is available in both NEM and three hole types and with different offsets for different fixing heights. I fit the Hornby ones with a bit taken off the lifting tail in the centre of takes of coaches.

[Dad-1]

There are so many differences, some quite subtle, but for best reliability Bigmet and Bufferstop are 'on the money'
that Bachmann is the way to go.
Many old wagons are not easy to up-date, some even have different running heights.

A few older, but acceptable wagons I have were converted using the now 'Peco' was Parkside Dundas PA34 mounting
blocks. These hold the Bachmann narrow tension-lock couplings in the standard dove-tail mount. These are often
advertised and being for use with the cranked Bachmann coupling - In a word "Rubbish" they are endlessly adaptable
and work exceptionally well with the two lengths of Bachmann couplings.

Here is an example where 3 Lima Horse & Groom Vans were converted from old couplings on the right, Sawn-off centre
and new couplings in PA34 mountings stuck in place.



Here is a PA34 stuck onto the original mounting boss on Airfix/Dapol wagon kits.



Here you see a PA34 as supplied, that will be used in this condition. The two ridges are cut away for other applications.



Remember the 'Buffing' bar on all couplings MUST be set at the same height - A MAXIMUM variance of 0.5 mm, or you will
experience problems particularly when reversing.

Geoff T.

[JohnDisdle]

Thanks for your reply Dad.

That's useful to know, but does that mean the Dapol wagon kits have to be modified to run with Hornby wagons. I have read somewhere, that Backman-Branchline and Dapol will couple up to Honby wagons without any mod.
Please can you confirm, as I am thinking of buying these kits.

[Dad-1]

The basic idea is that they should all couple together - but they are not good bed-fellows.
As already said by Bigmet there is a huge range of variations on a theme. Hornby have used many differing types as have
Dapol. You get hooks of different lengths, some at differing heights and in practice they don't work well together.
This is why Bigmet, Bufferstop, myself and many others standardize onto their own set standards, with in the opinion of
most being to use Bachmann mostly NEM pocket narrow tension-lock types.
It is a bit of a drag, BUT if you want reliable running, coupling, un=coupling with the ability to reverse long trains without
derailing then You have to do the engineering work of getting a unified system.

All this is one reason why I tend to buy newer production wagons that frequently just need the actual couplings changed,
that is the one to be removed snapped out of the NEM pocket, and Bachmann versions snapped in. The few older wagons
I'm happy enough to convert.

When converting, or making kits you can reduce the gap between wagons (close coupling) ALTHOUGH great care is needed
IF you use any 1st radius track. Buffer locking must be avoided at all costs otherwise it will constantly de-rail trains.

Geoff T.

[Mike Parkes]

I have read somewhere, that Backman-Branchline and Dapol will couple up to Honby wagons without any mod.
Please can you confirm, as I am thinking of buying these kits.

Bachmann make ready to run models not kits, Dapol make both ready to run and kits. There are various other ready to run wagon makers including Heljan and Oxford and all makes are supposed to work together including with Hornby . If coupling issues do arise due to slight differences in the design of the tension lock coupling given most today use NEM mounts its a simple task to swap couplings between wagons so for example you might have a wagon with slightly different tension locks on either end which adds to the tasks needed to shunt/assemble a train in the right order akin to the real railway where freight trains would be assembled with wagons all for the same destination next to each other.

Kits by there very nature can be adopted as needed to suit any coupling system.

[JohnDisdle]

Thanks for your reply, Mike.

So far, the wagons I have bought secondhand, have not had NEM pockets. This is why I bought a pack. It would have been far easier to just plug the new coupling into the pocket. We just live and learn...

[Bigmet]

There's all sorts of 'wrinkles' out there John. I snap up suitable examples of the old Airfix GMR wagons s/h when I see them, because the Airfix tooling was firstly generally good, and they made the best wagon subject selections until Bachmann started in OO.

These Airfix wagons had a moulded on coupler pocket, which meant they could take an old Hornby style Volvo bumper tension lock or Airfix' own miniature style tension lock; which was not only incompatible with the Hornby type, but actually smaller then the current miniature tension locks. A few examples with this coupler mounting system still lurk in Hornby's range. Happily this pocket may be used to accommodate a current miniature tension lock, with a little carving of the coupler, and a dab of adhesive to retain.

[Mike Parkes]

The small Airfix coupling did work with metal Triang-Hornby / Hornby tension locks provided only the Airfix hook made the link. The Airfix Volvo bumber Hornby type coupling was quickly replaced by Palitoy once they had acquired Airfix by a smaller coupling akin to those provided by Kader for the rest of the Mainline range which was continued to be used by Kader for Replica and then Bachmann until NEM couplings became standard.

[Bufferstop]

Thanks to a lot of tool acquisitions, take overs, sales and whatever the couplers which are now in the Bachmann range were fitted to models that found their way to Dapol and Hornby prior to the adoption by all of the NEM pocket, interchangeability is good, but only remains essential due to Hornby adopting a longer hook on their version of the slimline coupler. Of the older designs the Mainline plastic D shaped coupler will work tolerably well but is easy to swap thanks to Bachmann starting from models designed to take it and it using the same 3 hole spacing as the Hornby metal D shaped design.
I'm mystified as to why Hornby felt it necessary to change the length of the hook on the slimline design, If it was to make them compatible with the older Hornby types it failed miserably. The older bodies which came from Triang, Triang/Hornby and Hornby Dublo via Wrenn and Dapol all have a chassis with a central rivet or the three hole design, the real horrors are those using the one piece moulded chassis from Triang/Hornby and Hornby(Margate) designs. If the body is so special that you just have to keep it, it's worth looking out for a die cast Triang/Hornby chassis of the same length, it will have a rivet in the centre of the coupler which is easy to drill out and adds a useful few grams to the weight as well.

[JohnDisdle]

I recently purchased two Branchline, and one Hornby Doublo wagon. They all couple up, and also to my other wagons. So very pleased.

A previously bought Hornby Doublo tank wagon, had to have a new coupling. However, I think i'm winning....