East coast v cumbrian coast

[markh]

Okay now i dont do alot of rail travel, but today i had a run to york travelling from Harrington to carlisle, then cross to Newcastle and down to York,

Now the train to Carlisle was quite as it 6:30am so not many people on it, but just over 12 hours later on the return trip, it was the oppiset, a bunch of loud & noisy lasses shouting, yelling, and even swearing, and a small bunch kept walking up and down the train, not even my music blaring on full with my headphones in couldnt block them out, as for the trains, there a mess, at times, ive seen empty beer cans and bottles on tables, and the coaches are sometimes in a bit of mess on a evening,

As for east coast, it was the oppiset, the coaches where clean, with a guy walking down the train collecting rubbish, and had two bags full, every one was quite, even when not in the quite coach, but having only travelled with east coast 3 times, once to darlington last year and today to york and back, i find there service much better than virgin and FTP

Mark

[m8internet]

Passenger flows vary by time of day, day of week, and so on
Rowdy passengers are very common on later trains at weekends
However, you can't really compare a regional train against an inter-city train, the passenger types are typically different

Given a choice of travelling between London and Scotland, I choose Virgin Trains (West Coast) every time, but then again I travel First Class
The First Class service is better on East Coast, but there isn't much in it now

If you think East Coast was excellent, then try something like the mid-afternoon Aberdeen - Kings Cross on a Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday
BTP see this train off at Aberdeen and are quite often called to Dundee, Edinburgh and/or Newcastle; almost always a group of passengers warned about their behaviour, their alcohol seized, or even removed from the train

[b308]

Welcome to our world...

Though I wouldn't swap my inter city train for one of those Northern locals any day, we have it easy compared to the guards on those things... There's a By Law which says that anyone under the influence can be refused entry to the station, let alone the trains, it's about time it was enforced... Perhaps after having to walk home they may think twice about getting ratarsed...

[stuartp]

A Saturday afternoon train from the Cross full of tourists and shoppers is hardly a fair comparison with an evening service connecting the various fleshpots of the West March.

[Pennine MC]

... There's a By Law which says that anyone under the influence can be refused entry to the station, let alone the trains, it's about time it was enforced...

There are laws about lots of things, but as you say, they need to be enforced. The bigger question is, who's going to do the enforcing in these days of minimal or no staffing?

[luckymucklebackit]

Passenger flows vary by time of day, day of week, and so on
Rowdy passengers are very common on later trains at weekends
However, you can't really compare a regional train against an inter-city train, the passenger types are typically different

Given a choice of travelling between London and Scotland, I choose Virgin Trains (West Coast) every time, but then again I travel First Class
The First Class service is better on East Coast, but there isn't much in it now

If you think East Coast was excellent, then try something like the mid-afternoon Aberdeen - Kings Cross on a Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday
BTP see this train off at Aberdeen and are quite often called to Dundee, Edinburgh and/or Newcastle; almost always a group of passengers warned about their behaviour, their alcohol seized, or even removed from the train

That would be the guys coming off the rigs and production platforms, no booze for a few weeks and some of them try to make up for that in the first 24hrs back on shore. Obscene amounts of beers and spirits getting thrown down these guys throats, the buffet at Aberdeen Station must have been one of the most profitable on BR

JIm

[b308]

... There's a By Law which says that anyone under the influence can be refused entry to the station, let alone the trains, it's about time it was enforced...

There are laws about lots of things, but as you say, they need to be enforced. The bigger question is, who's going to do the enforcing in these days of minimal or no staffing?

The BTP and TOCs.

Watch this space, because I have a feeling in the not too distant future things will start to change. I know of one train that was held up by over 30 minutes recently due to the guard refusing to take it without BTP presence. We can only be pushed so far and, as is evident from several other posts, things are now coming to a head...

And not before time.

[whynot]

Not sure how one can blame the operators for the passengers that any particular route on any particular day/time attracts. "Well behaved passengers only" is not the best way to run public transport!

[Bufferstop]

Travelling up to Machester from Brum, a bloke and his girl got on at Stoke, she made a point of not sitting next to him. He was carrying a six pack of larger. The train was quite crowded so the guard couldn't get round to see what was going on. By the entrance to Piccadilly he'd downed the six cans, which he left on the seat and I found myself following them outside the station, first stop "Bargain Booze." He was no trouble to anyone else, but I wouldn't have wished to be on the same train as him on the return journey.

[markh]

Travelling up to Machester from Brum, a bloke and his girl got on at Stoke, she made a point of not sitting next to him. He was carrying a six pack of larger. The train was quite crowded so the guard couldn't get round to see what was going on. By the entrance to Piccadilly he'd downed the six cans, which he left on the seat and I found myself following them outside the station, first stop "Bargain Booze." He was no trouble to anyone else, but I wouldn't have wished to be on the same train as him on the return journey.

Reminds of going to Carlisle on the bus, and i got on at Workington, and the top deck was full of empty larger cans , and they remained there till carlisle, and when i went tot he bus station they had simply troughn the cans in the bus station, and when they where finally picked up by one of the drivers, after some where flattened by some of the buses,


Mark

[b308]

"Well behaved passengers only" is not the best way to run public transport!

Why the heck not?!

We expect certain standards of behavior in all walks of life, so why should Public Transport be any different... Pissheads shouting off, drooling over other passengers, being sick all over the place, hiding in the toilets to avoid having to pay isn't acceptable...

I suppose we could re-introduce cattle trains for them, but even cattle behave better...

Sorry to get annoyed, but you may come across them once in a blue moon, but for us Guards we have to deal with them every week and it's not pleasant. Then we have people trying to defend it by saying "Oh he's harmless, he's only enjoying himself" as if that is some sort of excuse, well that's not the way other passengers see it nor those of us who have to deal with them (substitute "she" for "he" as well!) see it... Standards of behavior have plummeted over the past few decades and it's about time things changed.

[whynot]

"Standards of behavior have plummeted over the past few decades and it's about time things changed."

Indeed they have, but my limited point - clear I thought from the complete statement - was and is that to apportion blame to any particular train company by comparing one specific journey to another lacks both logic and commonsense.

[b308]

I saw your post as two separate statements, one saying don't blame any particular TOC and one seeming so say that only accepting "well behaved" passengers is not a way to run PT, hence my comments. If that wasn't the way you intended it to be read I apologise!

I agree that to blame one TOC is not acceptable, but I could quite easily blame all of them as we've been telling them for many years that they need to do something... Strangely the cause can be traced back to the Gov's "Don't drink and drive" campaign which actually encouraged people to go out and get pissed and them use Public Transport! Start of the slippery slope!

[Pennine MC]

There are laws about lots of things, but as you say, they need to be enforced. The bigger question is, who's going to do the enforcing in these days of minimal or no staffing?

The BTP and TOCs.

Watch this space, because I have a feeling in the not too distant future things will start to change.... We can only be pushed so far and, as is evident from several other posts, things are now coming to a head...

And not before time.

Well, I hope you're right. I certainly sympathise with your situation.

[GWR_fan]

Australians have always had a 'booze' culture (dry climate and healthy work ethics create a thirst), however, of late the trend is to get blotto before the party goer even gets to a venue (most likely being drunk prior leaving home). Our safety campaigns encourage 'leaving the car at home' and 'drinking sensibly'. With clubs 'legally' restricting sales to intoxicated patrons and legislators denying them the usage of their cars when under the influence, public transport has become the last bastion of the big booze up when going out.

Today's hip generation are more inclined to be more expressive in their actions and what we could consider rowdy, abusive behaviour is normal for them. It is thirty odd years since I last had a drink or even travelled on public transport, but seeing the boozed up behaviour of a lot of Saturday night revellers at the local venues makes me shudder that anyone would be subjected to their behaviour when travelling home on PT.

At one time security guards travelled on every train and rowdy behaviour was a rare occurrence. Cost cutting saw them reduced considerably in numbers allowing free reign for the party people. When I used to travel on public transport not once did I see a guard leave his locked section of the train. Passengers were always well behaved. Alas, rowdy behaviour has become the norm these days and anyone even commenting on the behaviour is likely to get a black eye or worse still a king hit for their trouble.