Seamer Station (Nr. Scarborough) - OO or N gauge layout???

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bombadillic
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Seamer Station (Nr. Scarborough) - OO or N gauge layout???

Post by bombadillic »

Hello everyone,

Some of you may know me and my previous layout, Lodge Valley (link in signature). This layout was a quick 6x4 to enable me to practice the art of railway modelling. With "completion" of the layout set for next year, my mind has already starting thinking about "the next project".....

I'd never particually planned on ever replicating a real station. I just enjoyed building my own minature world but all that is about to change. From where I sit at work I can see the York to Scarborough line, seeing trains arrive at Seamer on a daily basis. I assumed the station itself would have never changed from the way it looks today....

Image

A simple island platform station with only 2 main lines and 2 siding which are not used. One signal box and generally, nothing much of interest to model.

But the history addict in me had to do some digging....I was amazed at what I discovered. Below is just a few of the many photographs I have found after months of research...

Image

Image

Image

Seamer Station was opened in 1845 by the York and North Midland Railway company. It initally served as a stop on the York to Scarborough line, and eventually took on traffic from the Hull branch when a junction was created south of the station. In 1882 another branch line passed through the station from Pickering (known as the Forge Valley Line). A new down line was added, along with the extra platform and footbridge. A new signal box was built by the station (known as Seamer East) to deal with the new pointwork, the old 1845 signal box was no longer used but survived until the 1990s. Seamer became a unique station featuring two signal boxes side by side. The Forge Valley line was closed in the 1950's, the track was lifted and platform demolished. A BATA goods shed dealing general goods deliveries and coal staithes, just north of the station, has now been replaced by a car pack and the railway crossing has been replaced by a fly over bridge. An old livestock platform is now overgrown and has not been used since the Seamer Auction Market was closed and replaced by the idustrial estate. There was also a platform ramp for loading lime wagons from the local quarry, but again, has now been demolished as there is no working quarry. As you can probably tell, Seamer today is very much a shadow of it's former self.

With the brief history, I could forsee a lot more operating and modelling potential as well as a chance to preserve a slice of history in model form. I've met several people who used to work on the railway at Seamer who have been of great help building up the day to day life at Seamer. Luckily, I came across a plan for the station whilst the Forge Valley platform was still in service....

Image

Now all I had to do was to create an 00 plan which best represented Seamer's past. The main condition of the layout is that it has to built in sections to allow me to remove it from the loft should we ever move (I've opted for 4 x 2 sections as this is the maximum that will fit through the hatch). I'm working towards DCC operation and the period I've opted for is between 1940-1950 so I can include the Forge Valley line. So....armed with google earth...I came up with this....

Image

There will be some tweaks to come so any suggestions are welcome. The red lines indicate the start and end of the layout and hopefully everything else should make sense. Sorry for such a long read but I hope you've enjoyed it and look forward to any comments.

Thanks for looking,

Tom
Last edited by bombadillic on Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Si_Donal
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Re: Seamer Station (Nr. Scarborough) - 1940s OO layout

Post by Si_Donal »

Tom,

This layout and the original has it all. A mainline, a branchline, shunting, RTR rolling stock and I think it would be brilliant to model a prototype.

I have a few suggestions which I think could add to your operating pleasure and the longevity of your layout. After all, you will have to live with it for ages if you commit to build it. I have attacked your very clear diagram with MS Paint. Sorry I am a bit of an IT Biff and am happier with a real pencil and a sheet of A4 Paper. Here's the diagram and I'll explain all in my next post.....


Image
Si

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Si_Donal
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Re: Seamer Station (Nr. Scarborough) - 1940s OO layout

Post by Si_Donal »

To add detail to the lousy diagram I drew.......

1. My biggest suggestion is to ease the radius of the curves at the end of the layout. Seamer is built in a straight line but many exhibition layouts bend "straight" mainlines to suit an oval layout style and it works for them. I have started the gentle curves at the ends of the platforms, where the balck lines are. This will keep the platforms and the bulk of the points straight. The visible curves are as gentle as possible. Pro's: Your bigger locomotives will look 100% better on gentle curves with little bogie overhang. Your locos will run better on gentle curves. Cons: You will need to use curved points in the coal yard and at the left hand end. No great hardship. I have shown the new curves at hatched grey lines. You'll have to add corners to those corner boards and I have shown these on the diagram.

2. Seamer has a very open landscape. You will need to carefully disguise the entrances to the fiddle yards with something local. I would suggest two fictional bridges at the branch end and a gentle cutting at the coal yard end with trees masking the entrance to the fiddle yard. To give you more running line and therefore the impression of space that the prototype cries out for, I have moved the entrance to the fiddle yard at the left hand end towards the fiddle yard

3. There are three points that do not need to function because they are actually functioning as catch points (with buffers) on the original. They are there to protect the mainlines from branch trains and rogue wagons from the sigings. The lines are too short to house a train. Very posh, and quite rare! Having them as non functioning will save you the cost of three point motors. The points are identified with an orange splodge.

4. It's a bit early to say but your fiddle yard plan looks chaotic with the branch lines reappearing as the up mainline? I'd keep it simple with loops on the up and down mainlines and a seperate three line yard for the branch.

Anyway, I hope that these suggestions inform rather than criticise because as I said in my earlier post, I think this layout is a potential winner.
Si

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stevebar
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Re: Seamer Station (Nr. Scarborough) - 1940s OO layout

Post by stevebar »

generally, nothing much of interest to model
I can vouch for that. My Mrs catches the 6.55 to Hull some mornings and it's the most boring spot you could wish to waste time standing on.

I saw the thread title and wondered "Why!!??"

Thankfully it was a lot more interesting in the past. :D
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ElDavo
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Re: Seamer Station (Nr. Scarborough) - 1940s OO layout

Post by ElDavo »

Some serious potential with that track plan, very interesting. I'll second the idea of trying to ease those curves at the ends of the scenic section and also rationalising the fiddleyard, it does look a little chaotic. What are you trying to do operationally with the fiddleyard layout? Maybe we are missing something. :)

Cheers
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stevebar
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Re: Seamer Station (Nr. Scarborough) - 1940s OO layout

Post by stevebar »

What are you trying to do operationally with the fiddleyard layout? Maybe we are missing something.
From Seamer it's next stop the terminus at Scarborough, so the design of the fiddle yard could be to replicate a terminus, or an oval for continuous running if feeling like watching the trains run?
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SouthernBoy
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Re: Seamer Station (Nr. Scarborough) - 1940s OO layout

Post by SouthernBoy »

I like the sound of this project - and it's great the way your ideas and inspiration have grown as you've looked more deeply into the history :)

Seeing as you're going for something prototypical with your trackplan - do you think you'll get bitten by the same bug when it comes to the buildings (ie, scratch building and kit bashing) ? And maybe researching reasonably typical trains of the period / region as well?

Either way - you've definitely got something to get your teeth into there :)
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Cjones_LNER
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Re: Seamer Station (Nr. Scarborough) - 1940s OO layout

Post by Cjones_LNER »

Hi, Bombadillic,

Even though I don't live in Scarborough, I pass by Seamer on the road between Morrisons and Scarborough, and you are absolutely right, in saying that there is literally nothing to model, I'm not even sure what they use those sidings for anymore! Now that, Seamer is showing alot more appeal, it means that the question "Why don't you model the Terminus of Scarborough, instead?" with the reasoning "that like York, you can run trains of any era on it, and if you run Modern Image, you can still run Steam on it, as the Scarborough Spa Express and Scarborough Flyer". Anyway back to Seamer, It looks set to be a great layout, are you planning to run LNER or BR (Ex LNER) on it? Also, it is from a different time period, but I think it would be funny (to me, at least) if Morrisons made it on, haha. :D . Anyway, Best of Luck and keep us posted :D
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bombadillic
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Re: Seamer Station (Nr. Scarborough) - 1940s OO layout

Post by bombadillic »

Thank you all for your comments so far - I'm working on getting a new track plan together shortly and I'm working on the suggested improvements.

Don't worry about the fiddle yard looking crazy, I've calmed it down a lot already - basically just wanted a continuous loop with additional sidings to store locos etc....I do the idea about making it another terminus like Scarborough, but that could be a little ambitious?

Anyway, this will keep my busy and I'll post shortly.

Thanks
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WillW
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Re: Seamer Station (Nr. Scarborough) - 1940s OO layout

Post by WillW »

Hi Tom

I really like the plan. I have been looking at Malton as a posibilty for a N gauge steam layout (also feel Scarborough might be a bit big!). Look forward to seeing a local layout progress..!

WillW
bombadillic
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Re: Seamer Station (Nr. Scarborough) - 1940s OO layout

Post by bombadillic »

Good evening,

Thank you everyone for your comments, I have a new plan for you to gander at. This is mostly inspired by the suggestions posted by Si_Donal.

The curves have been made more gentle to allow for better running/look and I've made several adjustments to the operating area, it's increased in size as I've downsized the fiddleyard boards but I've also cut off the two corners on the layout to allow for some more scenary work.

You will also see the addition of Seamer West Signal box, the was built to manage the junction where traffic seperated for York, Hull and Pickering. I decided I needed some more interest on the left side of the layout and is positioned pretty much where it stood before it was demolished in the early noughties.

And to everyone's delight.......the fiddleyard has also been hugely simplified! So, here is the plan.....

Image

Thanks for looking,

[b]Tom[/b]
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Cjones_LNER
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Re: Seamer Station (Nr. Scarborough) - 1940s OO layout

Post by Cjones_LNER »

lol this has inspired me to go check out google images for some pics of scarborough station, so i can knock a track plan together, perhaps back when the whole station was used, theres that bit down the furthest end of the platform, that seems to be unused, the only time I've seen it used was when scotsman on the scarborough flyer visited, and even then it was only like a gift shop kinda thing, i bought a painting of Mallard :D . so good luck bombadillic, and have fun doing it :D
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bombadillic
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Re: Seamer Station (Nr. Scarborough) - 1940s OO layout

Post by bombadillic »

Cjones_LNER wrote:lol this has inspired me to go check out google images for some pics of scarborough station, so i can knock a track plan together, perhaps back when the whole station was used, theres that bit down the furthest end of the platform, that seems to be unused, the only time I've seen it used was when scotsman on the scarborough flyer visited, and even then it was only like a gift shop kinda thing, i bought a painting of Mallard :D . so good luck bombadillic, and have fun doing it :D
You might be interested in a book by a local author called "Steam Around Scarborough" - gives lots of history and and some plans of the local lines. Well worth a read for local interest!

I'm sure I'll have lots of fun and would look forward to seeing a plan of Scarborough on here too :D

BomBaDillic
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Cjones_LNER
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Re: Seamer Station (Nr. Scarborough) - 1940s OO layout

Post by Cjones_LNER »

bombadillic wrote:
You might be interested in a book by a local author called "Steam Around Scarborough" - gives lots of history and and some plans of the local lines. Well worth a read for local interest![/i]
yeah, they might have it at waterstones up there. i'll take a look next time I'm up there. They may even have it at The Festival of British Railway Modelling. hmmm i'm gonna go hit google earth to take a look at scarborough :D

Update: 1 Hour later and I have a plan which has at least a semblance of reality.

Scarborough Station Plan.jpg
Scarborough Station Plan.jpg (31.64 KiB) Viewed 5611 times
Try and take this plan with a hint of salt when comparing it to the real thing, also, I only have the trial version of anyrail so this was the most I could do, @Bombadillic, maybe after your seamer layout is constructed, you could build this have it connected from the seamer layout? who knows :D[/b]
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Re: Seamer Station (Nr. Scarborough) - 1940s OO layout

Post by Si_Donal »

Hi Bombadillic,

I am loving the improvements. I think that the easing of those curves will make for faster running, even if it means "bending" reality a little. Nicely drawn up.

Now all you have to do is get a mortgage and build it! I'd suggest laying the inner circuit first, putting all the points in place that will feed the middle circuit and using it as a "datum". Also if you get one circuit running it'll allow you to sit and watch trains when you are getting fed up with building!

Good luck.

Si
Si

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