A (very) little experiment

Have any questions or tips and advice on how to build those bits that don't come ready made.
Phred
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A (very) little experiment

Post by Phred »

I was staring sulkily at my OO9 layout (N gauge track posing as narrow gauge, which has been lurking behind the study door for years) and thinking that I should be doing something about it.

I have the ballast in place and it occurred to me that the gravel, solidified with 50/50 PVA/water mix, looks like something which could be used to make stone walls or other structures.

While laying the ballast, I put a square of balsa between the tracks to act as a nice level base for some future structure. It’s 25mm square, about the size of the average postage stamp. Looks like a good spot for a little stone shed.

135.jpg

I’ve placed some gravel (sifted river sand really) on a piece of thin plastic and flooded it with PVA/water mix.

135a.jpg

I’ll let it set until tomorrow and see how it looks.
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Mountain
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Re: A (very) little experiment

Post by Mountain »

What often amazes me is the various colours sand, gravel and soil can come in. For example, I have seen ballast on the real railway which in the area where I came from was light grey, but when it was re-ballasted with pink ballast and a modeller went to a level crossing, took a few pieces of the new pink ballast, took it home and crushed it up for his railway (As he modelled an up-to-date railway scene), only to find that when he applied this new ballast, it was sticking to the underside of his locos as he found it was magnetic!
But yes. Ballast in all its colours is interesting. It basically is small stones so I guess it will vary a lot compared to where they quarried it. In the early years I when building the railways, in coastal areas, if they had pebble beaches, I would imagine they would have started off using them if they were a suitable size?
Have a mix of sand and small pebbles on the beach where I live now. Is a lovely beach and as not many people know about it, and we happen to live next to the footpath that goes down to it, so there are only room to park about two or three cars near the path opposite, so we find that the other beaches are crowded (Tourist area) and we get our beach to ourselves as a river is inbetween our nice long beach and their beaches! If we pass or see six people we think it is busy down there!
The first time we went down there, Mum and I saw two seals which popped their heads out of the sea to look at us as if to say "Look. Two humans!" :D

But ballast is interesting. When I see modellers use brown ballast, I think "That does not look right?" BUT, if I travel to the areas where they live, I find it looks perfect! Is really surprizing how much variation of colour one can find on the railway network, and that is JUST one railway network. Think about all the others round the World, let alone the other railways in the UK which are not part of the railway network.
Some areas of the railway (Or railways) never were ballasted as it all depended on the need and the ground one used and even the sleepers. The basic idea is that the stones provide drainage, a stable solid ground for the track to sit on, and a means to prevent (Or minimize) track movement if used on higher speed railways. But for some lightweight railways (with a few not-so-lightweight, they never had ballast! Surprizing that the odd parts of the railway network I know where the track goes through a muddy marsh and one would sink if one tries to walk it, there is no ballast! The track there floats on top of mud! (Such as around Beavers Hill on the Pembroke Dock branch which is inbetween Tenby and Pembroke Dock. Trains pass through a jungle of growth to get past that short area of the railway and from older photographs I have seen taken around 40 years ago, they always have!
To add to this, one long stretch of line which was built around the 1840's to 1850's they had to cross a large marsh. They employed hundreds of locql women to sew together a large membrane of rabbit skins which was tarred and laid down on the marsh and the track ballast and the track went on top, and it still survives to this day as the main line passes over a couple of miles of marsh on the main line between Carmarthen and Whitland in Wales.
Bigmet
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Re: A (very) little experiment

Post by Bigmet »

Plenty of UK examples of how railways got through marshes and bogs. Nearest to me on the ECML is an area called Marshmoor (the name is 'suggestive, no?'). When the GNR was constructing its line from London to York this was a major challenge to cross, and before construction commenced the contractor sent out a team far and wide to discreetly buy up as cheaply as possible all the next year's 'faggot wood', which at the time was the most affordable winter fuel in the area. This was placed in the marsh weighed down with stones along the planned route, until a stable surface emerged, on which to lay the track that remains the route to this day.

This came at a price:
The local populations were not amused at the shortage of winter fuel, but all was forgiven when mountains of cheap coal became available thereafter.
Since construction there have been regular derailments on the Marshmoor when heavier traction capable of higher speeds was introduced; (and when restoration of former speeds was begun after maintenance had been reduced during the lower speed operation of WWII) the most recent an IC225 set. Presumably the Hitachi Ambiguous Pazuma sets now on the ECML are functionally equivalent in terms of track loading to the IC225 sets they are replacing, thus no trouble...
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Mountain
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Re: A (very) little experiment

Post by Mountain »

Bigmet wrote: Sat Apr 26, 2025 2:23 pm Plenty of UK examples of how railways got through marshes and bogs. Nearest to me on the ECML is an area called Marshmoor (the name is 'suggestive, no?'). When the GNR was constructing its line from London to York this was a major challenge to cross, and before construction commenced the contractor sent out a team far and wide to discreetly buy up as cheaply as possible all the next year's 'faggot wood', which at the time was the most affordable winter fuel in the area. This was placed in the marsh weighed down with stones along the planned route, until a stable surface emerged, on which to lay the track that remains the route to this day.

This came at a price:
The local populations were not amused at the shortage of winter fuel, but all was forgiven when mountains of cheap coal became available thereafter.
Since construction there have been regular derailments on the Marshmoor when heavier traction capable of higher speeds was introduced; (and when restoration of former speeds was begun after maintenance had been reduced during the lower speed operation of WWII) the most recent an IC225 set. Presumably the Hitachi Ambiguous Pazuma sets now on the ECML are functionally equivalent in terms of track loading to the IC225 sets they are replacing, thus no trouble...
There is one small area that has wooden sleepers and old traditional jointed track which is lifted several times a year in an attempt to stop things sinking not far south of Carmarthen. Has a low speed limit. Every month or two they lif the track and put another membrane and pour on more ballast in the hope that it eventually settles. It is only a short piece not far from a river, and millions of ons of ballast has gone in there over the years. PW guys told me they poured in trainload after train load of ballast and it just swallow them up as if the ballast wasn't there. They can't use piledrivers as piles would just dissapear. It first showed signs of sinking around 40 years ago and they have poured everything down there over the years! The only thing they can do is keep lifting the track, pour more on each month or two and put the track back on top. We used to see the dips in the track before they did it again.

A friend of mine who passed away a year ago used to tell me of an area of the WCML (Think it was WCML) where he was driving a train and he lost power. He got out the cab to check if the pantograph was still OK and found I fully extended with around 6 to 8 ft gap between the pantograph and the wires. He found the whole line had sunk due to the marshy conditions but the pantograph masts had remained where they were! They had a lot of work to restore rhat!

Another occasion one driver I worked with told me that he was driving a train and he could feel something wasn't quite right but he carried on where he ended up being stopped at a signal, so he phoned the signal an from there. Apparently his pantograph had taken down 25 miles of wires behind him and he didn't know!
Phred
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Re: A (very) little experiment

Post by Phred »

Mountain wrote:
But ballast is interesting.
Where else but on this forum could you read such truth? :lol:

As for last night's trial with gravel/PVA mix, it came out nice and solid, and slides off the plastic without any problems.

136.jpg

Now to devise some sort of shed shaped mould…

Coffee first.
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Mountain
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Re: A (very) little experiment

Post by Mountain »

Phred wrote: Sat Apr 26, 2025 9:46 pm
Mountain wrote:
But ballast is interesting.
Where else but on this forum could you read such truth? :lol:

As for last night's trial with gravel/PVA mix, it came out nice and solid, and slides off the plastic without any problems.


136.jpg


Now to devise some sort of shed shaped mould…

Coffee first.
Looks so nice I could almost eat it!
Phred
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Re: A (very) little experiment

Post by Phred »

Mountain wrote:
Looks so nice I could almost eat it!
Heh! It does look a bit snap, crackle and pop!

Your post about track laying problems got me thinking about a documentary I saw on SBS Australia called Haramain: The Train Of The Desert, about building a high speed train track across the shifting sands of Saudi Arabia. Don't know if you can access the programme in the UK but it's well worth watching.
Phred
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Re: A (very) little experiment

Post by Phred »

Good morning! :D
A cool southwesterly wind started blowing overnight - a sure sign that winter is coming.

Anyway, here are some bits of plastic cut out in a shed shape to create a mould.
137.jpg

I’ve stuck a bit of thin wood on the inside of one end with sticky tape so as to (hopefully) create a depression in the outside wall for a doorway.
138.jpg

Here’s all the bits stuck together with sticky tape:
139.jpg

Left a hole in the bottom to pour the gravel in. I placed the gravel at one end to ensure that I got it into all the corners and so that I could distribute the PVA mix evenly.
140.jpg

I’ll now let it set and repeat at the other end before filling in the middle. That will take a couple of days, so bear with me.

I’ll be back (as the cyborg said to the policeman).
Phred
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Re: A (very) little experiment

Post by Phred »

Morning all! :D

Here it is filled up and ready to have the plastic removed:
141.jpg
Hmm…
That’s the top off. Seems solid enough.
142.jpg
Aaand…
143.jpg
It looks like a melted sugar lump. The oversized photo image doesn’t help.

However, nil desperandum, I’ll make up a suitably weathered door to fit into the space I moulded into the front. Maybe it’ll look better then.

This will require more coffee (and hobnobs). ☕ 🍪🍪
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Mountain
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Re: A (very) little experiment

Post by Mountain »

Make it out of rice crispier so you can eat it?

I am enjoying this. Looks fun! The good thing is it should take a file to smoth the sides. Wonder if a larger scale be better, but try filing the sides first to see if it works as it does show good potential.
Phred
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Re: A (very) little experiment

Post by Phred »

Mountain wrote:
Make it out of rice crispier so you can eat it?
:lol: Might be of some practical use then!

As for the file, I don't think it would have much effect since the whole thing is basically stone held together with PVA. What I'm going to try is pouring sand over it and tapping/brushing away the excess, then drizzle diluted PVA on. That should fill the gaps and 'solidify' everything.

Making a start on the door. A thin wood strip and some matchsticks painted green, overpainted with brown and distressed with sandpaper.
144.jpg

The door glued in place. That little bit of Milliput (painted grey) attached to the front will look like weathered concrete when all is done. Maybe.
148.jpg

Also applied some weathering solution to the walls to tone down the ‘golden’ look.

I think I'll fit the roof next. That way I can fill any gaps around the edges when I pour the sand on.

Looks like being a nice day to go for a walk on the beach if my wife doesn't decide we're doing something else.
Phred
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Re: A (very) little experiment

Post by Phred »

The roof. I decided to have a go at old decrepit slates, uneven, some slipped, etc. First time I’ve tried to make a slate roof, so be kind…

152.jpg

A bit of folded cardboard and some craft paper strips cut to (more or less) roof slate size. I haven’t tried to get the cuts dead straight as the slates are meant to be uneven. That covers the fact that I can’t cut straight (or see straight).

Edited because I meant to say slates, not tiles. Doh!
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Mountain
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Re: A (very) little experiment

Post by Mountain »

It should work fine. I was down the beach today admiring the tiny stones. All on a pebble area of beach near the sea at a place where two different sized railways and a little ferry meet. :D
Phred
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Re: A (very) little experiment

Post by Phred »

Mountain wrote:
a place where two different sized railways and a little ferry meet.
What a brilliant model railway that would make! Would be nice to see a photo. :)

In the meantime:
Tiles stuck on, painted dark grey, dry brushed with a bit of earth brown and a bit of diluted matt black.

154.jpg

Looks reasonable, although that ‘slipped tile’ third from the right in the second row looks overly large in the photo. Not noticeable at all in real life. I stuck a little latch thing on the door as well.

This is beginning to look a bit too bucolic to be sitting between the railway lines, I might make it into a little diorama which I can later incorporate into the general layout scenery.

I'm being told that the bushes in the garden are getting out of hand, so I suppose have to deal with them first. :roll:
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Mountain
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Re: A (very) little experiment

Post by Mountain »

Phred wrote: Sat May 03, 2025 9:08 pm
Mountain wrote:
a place where two different sized railways and a little ferry meet.
What a brilliant model railway that would make! Would be nice to see a photo. :)
Easy. Much to see online and in various publications of one of the loveliest little seaside railways...The Fairborne Railway in Wales.Take a look at the YouTube video below.

https://youtu.be/13FSBtqLK5k?si=XbwSu8IMOP8du28B

He didn't show the mainline railway which is right across the road and meets the Fairbourne Railway. He started off at Barmouth. He could have gone on the main standard gauge railway back to Barmouth over the longBarmouth bridge!

https://youtu.be/yKvyvmcoQsg?si=F2h96Q-GY5J7HFDR

https://youtu.be/yKvyvmcoQsg?si=F2h96Q-GY5J7HFDR

0620 to about 0712 on the video shows a train running along the abandoned section of line as the line used to run round in a loop when Mr Ellerton took it over. He no longer owns the railway, and as this section of line was high maintenencedue to the sand blowing onto the track which needed to be shoveled out each year before the train season started, the decision was made to abandon this section and go back to a simple run round loop instead. Remains of the former loop of track are still there partly buried under the sand though now isolated from the rest of the railway. It gives a rather historic feel to this section as it has now been a long time since trains last ran round it.

https://youtu.be/6RlRNxJVJXk?si=APlQCA_WbFjKhnPI


And the standard gauge railway next to the Fairbourne Railway? I have found a vid of the main line station but the one making the film did not turn the camera behind to show the Fairbourne railway station.

https://youtu.be/TJupWYB4YyM?si=daatkimesAr6H-St

I do 100% agree that it would make a fantastic model!

https://youtu.be/1NTHiKDqjF0?si=lulYLhEyIfVsvSiK
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