New layout

[Stokestation12]

Hello all,
I have finally begun my journey today after years of putting it off and not been able to allocate time due to commitments.

I am starting a loop layout, loosely based on early 90's North Staffordshire, using a mix of intercity passenger trains and various freight options.

Meet the fleet:

I have roughly constructed a long station as per image:

The station runs pretty much the whole length of these straight boards, which are 2.4m in total length.


Now I need to see how much space I will have to allow curves.
I'm mulling over the idea of adding a third track and possibly another platform to allow freight to pass through the middle with passenger trains using the outside lines.

Current rakes/formations:

Class 90 Railfreight with a mix of speedlink vans
Class 90 Intercity with mk4s and dvt
Class 37 coal Sect with mgr hoppers
Class 43 Intercitry hst (7 mk3s if space allows)
Class 47 Intercity with motorail GUV's, mk2 break coaches and mail coaches
Class 86 Intercity with mk2s
Class 47 Railfreight with mgr hoppers


Open to any suggestions, tips etc

[Mountain]

Looks good. A nice start!

[Stokestation12]

All being well, I will be able to do some more work on Tuesday.

At the moment, I only have half of the loft boarded properly, allowing a narrow layout until more boarding can be set. I am currently thinking about doing a dog bone loop layout with the current width that I have available, then in the future expand it so that it goes all the way around the loft once the boarding is complete.

By my rough estimates, I should be able to add at least another 1 - 1.5m to the overall length, bringing me to nearly 4m. At either end will be a wider board to allow the dog bone loops. I will likely be removing one of the terminus platforms and doing a bit of rejigging with the station layout to allow the track to run behind the station. If space allows, I will be adding a run-through fiddle yard so that I can swap trains around with just a few point switches.

The scenic idea of the layout will be that the station is between 2 tunnels/Hills, that will then hide the dog bone loops. The fiddle yard behind the station will be hid by a scenic backdrop, possibly made up of low relief buildings and/or a skyline or hillside printed board.

Based on the space available, I was hoping to keep the engine shed and possibly add my diesel maintenance depot building, but these may have to wait until the whole loft is boarded and they can go on another scenic section. I have found a double level crossing which I aim to add just before the line enters the tunnel going into the loops, which would give commuters access to the station car park.


I have been scouring the Web and going over my freight rolling stock to try and decide on my rakes.
So far, I have decided on an MGR HAA hopper rake (25 hoppers), a Mainline HEA Hopper rake (12+barrier wagon) and possibly a parcel rake consisting of GUV coaches and a few mk2 break coaches.

I have the following but I'm not 100% sure on how to group them together and was hoping that someone would be able to give some rake suggestions:

Speedlink livery ferry vans (x5)
Speedlink VDA vans (x6)
Speedlink VEA box vans (x4)
Speedlink livery steel carriers (x10)
Speedlink Red and black/grey HEA hoppers (x2)
Speedlink guard van
Engineers yellow/grey livery ferry van (x1)
Railfreight grey OBA wagon (x1)
Railfreight grey (yellow ends) VDA van (x1)
Un-liveried double vee tanker
BP TEA tanker (x3) and BP short tanker(x2)
Motorail car transporter (x2)
Motorail GUV coach (Intercity red and black livery x3)
Container wagons (x4) (wasn't going to use due to poor condition)
Yellow breakdown crane
Hornby yellow track cleaning wagon (x2)









Once the track is laid out in a test layout, I will commence testing the locos and rolling stock on the 2nd and 3rd radius curves.

[Bigmet]

Cannot really help you on the freight rolling stock formations, other than short groups of wagons being moved to and from an 'off scene' repair yard by an 08, 20, or another smaller diesel, might be one way of using some of them.

...I have found a double level crossing which I aim to add just before the line enters the tunnel going into the loops, which would give commuters access to the station car park...

It's your choice entirely, but that is an unlikely formation*, because the hill which the tunnel goes through is a 'natural bridge' for bringing a road over the railway. The opposite scenario is one I know well: at Welwyn North station, the South end overlooks a valley, and the station forecourt is East side of the line, and the car park the West side, with access between the two by a road underbridge, and a pedestrian footbridge over the railway.

*Someone will now produce a genuine example! In a country which featured a level crossing running through station platforms, sections of which swung as part of the crossing gate system, everything is possible.

[aleopardstail]

modern freight tends to be blocks of the same or at least similar wagons, as noted though a "wagon repair works" can be the perfect excuse for smaller mixed rakes and a bit of shunting. Used to work with a company that ran such a place and anything could end up there. indeed a good place to have a "works" siding to have the breakdown crane.

such a facility is likely say two shed roads (a tall shed for overhead cranes, which is good for say hiding tracks behind it going off stage so to speak), then maybe two or three in front of it where stuff is stored, arrives and departs, any or all of which could be inset track or just ballasted as usual. small office building, car park, storage sheds, good for rusted up wheelsets, old damaged eBay purchases to be weathered and left.

totally avoids the "need" for real freight rakes as you can run anything in and out - while having block trains just rumble past.

another option, indeed can be combined, is a track works place, just a couple of sidings and a heap of ballast etc

either of both of which make a nice bit to stick alongside a scenic area that larger trains run past when you lack space for a longer station but want longer trains (plus the old trick of model half or even just a quarter of a station than then "continues the otherside of the bridge")

best bet is see what board space you have, then get some track and basically play trains until you find stuff you like and don't overly worry about the plan for now - indeed track feeds visible, hand operated points etc becomes very easy to experiment with (bits of double sided tape work wonders too)

you've got a good freight selection there, something worth deciding is how long physically you want trains to be, considering how tight curves will be can be a huge limiting factor here - setting up some basic track is a good way to experiment, rolling friction is higher on curves and the "bow string" effect can derail stuff

[Stokestation12]

Thank you all for your replies, certainly food for thought!

Re my freight train lengths, I was hoping to have a mixed bag really. Was hoping to run a long MGR hopper rake (I currently have 25+ HAA hoppers). The speedlink vans and steel carriers could easily be broken up and made into several shorter rakes or combine them to make one or two big rakes. The breakdown crane could take the odd trip out, just waiting on a good deal online or or ebay for the crew coach to go with it! I imagined that it would mostly be a siding filler in a siding.
Then I was going to put the tanker wagons together with the vee tanker.

Re passenger trains, I was hoping to run a 2 +7 Class 43 Intercity HST, possibly a Class 90/DVT and x7 mk4s. I was hoping to be able to have a long station to accommodate these such as in the pics.
I wasn't able to get into the loft today so I haven't been able to have a look at what space I have left to work with. Width at the moment isn't expandable so it's either dog bone style or wait until the loft is fully boarded and go around the outside.
Re dogbone derailment based on radius size; I have got hornby set track. I have 1st, 2nd and 3rd radius curves to play with. I didn't like the idea of using 1st radius at all.


One thing that I have noticed in this phase is how much thought and imagination it takes. I am loving that most layouts are end to end or loop based but there are so many variations. The only limit is ones creativity....and of course space!

Again, thank you all for your input.

[aleopardstail]

Thank you all for your replies, certainly food for thought!

Re my freight train lengths, I was hoping to have a mixed bag really. Was hoping to run a long MGR hopper rake (I currently have 25+ HAA hoppers). The speedlink vans and steel carriers could easily be broken up and made into several shorter rakes or combine them to make one or two big rakes. The breakdown crane could take the odd trip out, just waiting on a good deal online or or ebay for the crew coach to go with it! I imagined that it would mostly be a siding filler in a siding.
Then I was going to put the tanker wagons together with the vee tanker.

Re passenger trains, I was hoping to run a 2 +7 Class 43 Intercity HST, possibly a Class 90/DVT and x7 mk4s. I was hoping to be able to have a long station to accommodate these such as in the pics.
I wasn't able to get into the loft today so I haven't been able to have a look at what space I have left to work with. Width at the moment isn't expandable so it's either dog bone style or wait until the loft is fully boarded and go around the outside.
Re dogbone derailment based on radius size; I have got hornby set track. I have 1st, 2nd and 3rd radius curves to play with. I didn't like the idea of using 1st radius at all.


One thing that I have noticed in this phase is how much thought and imagination it takes. I am loving that most layouts are end to end or loop based but there are so many variations. The only limit is ones creativity....and of course space!

Again, thank you all for your input.

its worth testing the curves, I had 2nd radius some time back and while I had the space (a glorious 24'x13'! I wish I still had) I used set track as it was a temp layout. Could run a long train, well the 8 coaches I had, it stalled on corners due to friction.

dogbone is a good concept, and perfect for nice length trains, it may be worth trying to expand the width at the end and for longer trains have 3rd as the minimum, but certainly try it

to be honest "your layout, your rules" applies in full if you want mixed trains

[Stokestation12]

After careful consideration, I'll be changing to an "around the outside" layout going around the walls to allow easier access and larger radius curves, with the minimum being 3rd radius.

This will give me a much bigger and more flexible fiddle yard and of course more width on the station area which is going to be the main "attraction".

[Bigmet]

...I haven't been able to have a look at what space I have left to work with. Width at the moment isn't expandable so it's either dog bone style or wait until the loft is fully boarded and go around the outside.
Re dogbone derailment based on radius size; I have got hornby set track. I have 1st, 2nd and 3rd radius curves to play with. I didn't like the idea of using 1st radius at all...

This is shouting a message to me. WAIT!

In short, get that loft fully boarded for maximum available width, so that the largest possible radius curves can be used.

Then if practical, abandon set track curves. It's amazing how much better larger radius curves are when it comes to longer trains. A twenty four inch radius was traditionally the smallest for club OO layouts to ensure reliable exhibition operation. My own experience is that reliability with current RTR OO productions leaps up by the time 30" radius is reached. On a continuous level run with return curves of this radius the larger locos wil haul forty coaches, and something like a Bachmann Deltic will run at a scale 100mph with this load, and will do it all day with no trouble. (Alternatively 160 traditional four wheel wagons behind a 9F...) Operation has to be considered, smoothly grafting up to maximum speed over the best part of two minutes, and likewise when coming back to a stand.

[Stokestation12]

Thank you all for your feedback, it's very much appreciated.

All being well, will be able to get up in the loft on Thursday again so I will be able to assess what room I've got for curves.

[Stokestation12]

Managed to get an hour in the loft today.

I have had a move around of the station so that it's flatter against the outer side of the board, meaning the mainline can run closer to the edge of the loft walls.

It looks like I will be able to extend the station to about 3m so I will just be able to get a full length hst and class90/dvt to stop with a little room either side.

I will just have enough room to get a 4th and 3rd radius curve at the far end, so I will try that and see if I run into any issues. If not, will have to have a rethink.

[aleopardstail]

third & forth are pretty decent

something to consider, though it adds to the overall width (could be done with 3rd & 4th maybe) - have the station partly on the curve, as in curved platforms for part of the length, given the curves are usually not used for anything else it can save space.

other is an over bridge at one end just before the curve, the curve being "off stage" so as long as stuff goes round it looks don't really matter - now you can have a full length train on maybe a 3/4 or 1/2 length platform

do like that picture though, something magic about a proper length train, a good length station and all of a sudden a yard next to it suddenly doesn't dominate

good length run that

[Mountain]

May I suggest tracking down some Hornby hydraulic sprung bufferstops for your terminus station? They really work well to prevent damage if trains hit the buffers.

[Stokestation12]

Do they do sprung buffer stops that aren't as wide as the ones in the foreground? If I use them, it pushes the track further away from the platform making too wide of a gap for the commuters to leap from the train!


Edit: are these the ones you were thinking ok?

[Stokestation12]

Just spent an hour in the loft....the heat nearly finished me off!!!

Added another board, bringing me to a 3.6m length. I have trimmed the newest board so that it's only 40cm width compared to the others that are 60cm as this is where the yard scenic area will stop. The next board that will go on will be even thinner as anything afterward now will be just for the 2 mainlines to loop around the loft until it gets to the fiddle yard.
I am using the level crossing as a makeshift distance gauge for the tracks just to give me an idea of the minimum width until I can get one of the tracks tracksetters to bring the mainline slightly closer together.

I am going to have my station length at around 320cm to comfortably allow a full HST, maybe squeeze an extra coach in for an 8 coach set.

I've ordered some of the hydraulic buffers as suggest for my terminus, which should now be able to accommodate a HST as well as the DMU's.

Can't wait for the next day up there....just hope it's not as hot!