Anybody know what this model is based on?

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KIMBO
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Anybody know what this model is based on?

Post by KIMBO »

chance and hunt.jpg
Hope this comes out OK!

Does anybody on the forum know what this old Hornby wagon body is based on? I know it was incorrectly liveried up mostly as a coal wagon many times and it has had a bit of a slating for its "toy" status over the years. Anyhow, on closer inspection, it's actually nicely moulded and detailed 7 plank open goods wagon - wide full height door being the give away. I wonder if it is actually modelled on some obscure prototype, possibly of a pre grouping build. I've trawled through all my wagon books which cover all the big 4 and British Rail stuff but can't find a match. Would appreciate any thoughts from the knowledgeable folks on here!
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Bufferstop
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Re: Anybody know what this model is based on?

Post by Bufferstop »

Chance and Hunt aka Chance Brothers aka ICI Chance and Hunt and every other combination you can think of were a large chemicals industry and had both PO Wagons and their own fleet of narrow boats. Good luck in trying to track down original drawings, it's hard enough trying to find what name they were going by at any date. Any inaccuracies are likely to be common to the whole range of 7 plank wagons may even be common with the ones produced by Dapol.
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KIMBO
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Re: Anybody know what this model is based on?

Post by KIMBO »

Thanks for the reply Bufferstop.

Very interesting insight into the company history, perhaps they really did have the need for a high sided open goods wagon for sacks of chemicals etc.

I think the basic wagon moulding is such an odd design that it probably has some resemblance to a real life wagon (possibly not the liveries it's used) in the same way that Airfix (GMR) also used a quite accurate open goods, not mineral, wagon (Southern Railway possibly) to represent numerous coal wagons.
Some of the older wagons by Hornby turn out to be real gems, the bogie brick wagon and the NE refrigerator wagon (the one with end ladders) are two quite accurate "toys" that respond very well to a bit of light surgery and I'm hoping this wagon will turn out to be an accurate model of something!
I'm sure somebody has the knowledge to identify it or expose it as a pattermakers / designers folly! I bet Pat Hammond would know a little about it's prototype.
I shall keep looking for info on it!
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Lysander
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Re: Anybody know what this model is based on?

Post by Lysander »

Not being picky here for a minute, but you reference the NE refrigerator van - you might be talking about another vehicle altogether but do you mean the white four-wheeler? If so, it's a representation of a GWR Mica. Not wholly accurate but a useful model nevertheless and, yes, both it and the bogie brick can be hugely improved quite simply. Have a look at these [or not, as you wish!!]:

https://srmg.org.uk/bricking-it

https://srmg.org.uk/a-mid-week-quickie

Tony
Men with false teeth may yet speak the truth.......
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Bufferstop
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Re: Anybody know what this model is based on?

Post by Bufferstop »

Most of the chemical reactions that they used depended on one very common factor, heat, usually from steam. That meant boilers mostly fired by coal. In the late 50s early 60s a lot was switched to natural gas. The PO 7 plank wagons would have lasted well into the thirties, their liveries becoming more and more patchwork as ad hoc repairs were carried out.
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Bigmet
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Re: Anybody know what this model is based on?

Post by Bigmet »

KIMBO wrote: Wed Nov 15, 2023 7:43 am ...I think the basic wagon moulding is such an odd design that it probably has some resemblance to a real life wagon (possibly not the liveries it's used) in the same way that Airfix (GMR) also used a quite accurate open goods, not mineral, wagon (Southern Railway possibly) to represent numerous coal wagons...
This useful item, though as above with a PO livery it almost certainly never carried:
http://www.airfixrailways.co.uk/WagonsM.htm
An inspired subject choice as it is representative of a general merchandise open design which all the Big Four had constructed from the late 1930s. Notice how the drop door top plank is tapered on the inside, while the bottom plank of the door angles outwards? That's to make the drop door into a ramp easily negotiated by a sack barrow or other wheeled trucks, used in loading and unloading from a platform.

Airfix GMR did produce it in BR bauxite (with one number) Hornby occasionally make a batch from this tooling and often get the livery wrong... Whatever, it's very useful as the only other general merchandise opens in RTR OO are the LNER six plank from Oxford Rail, and the LNER/BR high steel, and the much rarer LMS/BR Shock Open.

Wish I could help with mystery wagon body.
Bigmet
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Re: Anybody know what this model is based on?

Post by Bigmet »

That wagon body, it kept niggling away at me! The general form looks somewhat like a late C19th RCH pattern mineral, which the Midland built for itself in quantity. Was there a 'general merchandise open' (GMO) variant with a full height drop door? A number of pre-group companies built their GMO's with seven and eight plank side sheeting, GER and SECR for a start, but these typically had a drop door of five planks, and a pair of cupboard doors above two or three planks deep.
KIMBO
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Re: Anybody know what this model is based on?

Post by KIMBO »

ne refr small.jpg
Thanks for the replies folks.
Re the Refrigerator wagon:
For Lysander, the above image is of the Refrigerator wagons I was referring to. They line up fairly accurately to a drawing in one of the model railway mags that was around when they first came out. The underframe was also quite accurate with a bit of imagination and at normal viewing distances but has unfortunately been changed over the years to whatever generic underframe was being used at the time. The ones either side in the photo have been retro fitted with the underframes from the Chance and Hunt wagons, hence me trying to find out if that body moulding represents anything in the real world. I've painted the underframes matt black, chopped the original Hornby tension locks off and fitted the modern mini loop couplings and Dapol wheelsets to match the rest of my stock, at some point they will feel the wrath of my airbrush and get what passes as weathering on my layout!
Incidentally the centre wagon has not been weathered but has come from a smokers collection!

I'll keep my eyes open to see if I can find any info on the Chance wagon moulding.
I
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Lysander
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Re: Anybody know what this model is based on?

Post by Lysander »

In all of my time I’d never seen those! Thanks for clarifying.

Tony
Men with false teeth may yet speak the truth.......
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