Accuracy test for 90s era layout

[Stokestation12]

Hi all,


I'm back to the planning phase of my layout.
I've got it all mapped out in my head and I plan on having a quite a few trains on my layout.
I plan on running 3 main lines through a station with a 4th that ends as a terminus.

I am going for early 90s liveries roughly set in the North Staffordshire era. I'm not super tight for accuracy but I just wanted to run a few things past everyone to see if my ideas are accurate for the time era.


My passenger trains will consist of several Intercity swallow liveried trains. Will be made up with a class 43 hst and a class 91 225. I will also have a "makeshift" intercity hauled by a class 73 with mk3 coaches and a brake corridor coach. I will be able to switch the passenger trains around on the fiddle yard area. Terminus line will be a regional railways sprinter that can be swapped out for a central railways sprinter.
My question here is would an intercity class 43 hst in the blue intercity livery be out of place; would there have been much of a crossover period with the liveries?


On the central line will be a goods train. I have a class 90 railfreight livery that will be hauling railfreight ferry and box vans (red and grey livery). I also have a class 37 in coal sector livery that I was going to run with a short rake of speedlink hoppers.
Would these 2 be accurate for my time frame?


I also have spare a class 37 in Dutch yellow/black livery & a BR grey class 73.

Looking forward to your replies and getting back into the hobby!

[Bigmet]

Combinations of past and present livery schemes are always evident at changes of ownership or branding, simply because any significant fleet which has to keep running to maintain uninterrupted service takes time to relivery. ( I wouldn't even quote a date, just say 'transition period between BR and TOC's', which should cover it.

[Jim S-W]

The last blue HST power car was repainted in 1987.

You wouldn't get class 73s and 91s in Staffordshire at all. You would need classes 86, 87 and 90 as your principle motive power along with class 37, 47, 56 and 60

One of the signature trains were pairs of class 37s on clay tigers to Stoke. These started to switch over to class 60s in 1996

DVTs were well set in by then

For units 304s and 310s were still common . Class158s were common. Central trains started operations in 1997 as did virgin

[Stokestation12]

The last blue HST power car was repainted in 1987.

You wouldn't get class 73s and 91s in Staffordshire at all. You would need classes 86, 87 and 90 as your principle motive power along with class 37, 47, 56 and 60

One of the signature trains were pairs of class 37s on clay tigers to Stoke. These started to switch over to class 60s in 1996

DVTs were well set in by then

For units 304s and 310s were still common . Class158s were common. Central trains started operations in 1997 as did virgin

Thank you such for your reply, very informative!

I have another question; what locos would be seen hauling a 125 hst other than a class 43? Say for example class 90s and class 91s would haul a 225, what would be a replacement for a class 43? A 47?

[Jim S-W]

I assume by HST you mean mark 3 coaches. The class 86, 87 & 90 would haul those with a mk3 DVT but there were visual differences between the loco hauled ones (generally mk3a) and the HST ones (mk3b). Those being buffers, roof vents and bogie wheel slip equipment). These trains would usually be on the west coast sets.

The cross country sets would usually be class 47 on aid conditioned mk2s. Principally mk2e and mk2f

[Stokestation12]

I assume by HST you mean mark 3 coaches. The class 86, 87 & 90 would haul those with a mk3 DVT but there were visual differences between the loco hauled ones (generally mk3a) and the HST ones (mk3b). Those being buffers, roof vents and bogie wheel slip equipment). These trains would usually be on the west coast sets.

The cross country sets would usually be class 47 on aid conditioned mk2s. Principally mk2e and mk2f

Thank you again.

In and out of Staffordshire, is there any instances where a Class 43 would be replaced at one end of the train but there would be a class 43 at the other end? So instead of 2 class 43's, there would be for example a class 43 at one end and a class 47 or any other loco at the other?

[Jim S-W]

Absolutely not - As HST mk3s didnt have buffers and only buckeye couplings it would be impossible to couple them up without an additional adapter vehicle. Should one of the power cars fail the HST would carry on with one power car (assuming it was the back one that failed - They could still get to about 100mph on 1 power car). Theres instances where the rear power car is removed and the train carries on with one or (and this is the most likely) a loco would be coupled to the front power car (via a long pole type coupling) and would haul the whole train

Best thing to do is search for pictures of the area in the timeframe you are modelling and simply copy what you see.

[Bufferstop]

In and out of Staffordshire, is there any instances where a Class 43 would be replaced at one end of the train but there would be a class 43 at the other end? So instead of 2 class 43's, there would be for example a class 43 at one end and a class 47 or any other loco at the other?

What you are describing was ECML practice when there was a long delay in providing DVTs. A number of Class 43s were fitted with buffers and conventional draw gear to allow them to be used as DVTs on the ECML. It didn't take long for someone to decide that it would be better for the class 43 to be powered up to negate the effects of dragging a dead loco so they were officially contributing a small amount of traction and the additional braking power. Of course it couldn't end there, they were allowed to start providing propulsion. Some remarkable timings were achieved before the DVTs arrived, and the class 43s were returned to HST sets. I don't know if any subsequently had their buffers removed, two of them are currently running as a loco available for hire.

[Stokestation12]

Thank you all for your replies, very informative and has been a big help.

I'm debating what to run and for now, I have settled on:

Class 91 hst with mk4 coaches and dvt.

Class 90 with mk3 coaches and a dvt (need to purchase a second dvt)

Class 90 Railfreight with a rake of railfreight/speedlink ferry and box vans.

Class 37 coal sector livery with a rake of speedlink hoppers.

Regional railways sprinter.

Then for the days when I am not feeling as era/location complicit, will run the Class 43 hst.

Thank you!

[Jim S-W]

As I said before you wouldn't get 91s and mk 4 coaches in Staffordshire. They were on the ECML

You would get HSTs though.