Sir Dinadan puzzle

[Firefly16]

Firstly, Having been unable to log in for the best part of a year, what a relief to have my one contact with fellow modellers restored! Now to get to the topic. Having acquired two Sir Dinadans, I can't understand why more care wasn't taken with the cylinder and valve gear assembly, given the attention that was given to the backhead detail. I know the model was introduced at a time of change and Hornby were just waking up to the fact that something more than 'toy trains' were wanted, but seven foot slide bars?

[Lysander]

I guess that this model has to be at least 40 years old now, and probably more. Hornby used awful metal rod slide bars on so many of their engines then and for a while after, too, alongside horrible grey plastic or over scale pressed metal crossheads. That's vintage modelling though.

Tony

[Bigmet]

I guess that this model has to be at least 40 years old now...

In terms of tooling it must be all of that. Hornby were still making trainset product, and the competition in steam locos from Airfix GMR, Mainline, Dapol and Replica - all of them offering 'something better' - didn't have over much influence.

But... then Bachmann kicked off, and having determined there was a market with a probe of split chassis steam locos largely based on ex-Mainline body shell toolings, knocked out their 'Blue Riband' series: now that put the frighteners on Hornby!

Once Hornby migrated tooling and production to China, with the rebuilt MN the first all newly tooled item to emerge in 2000, the very popular N15 class got an all new model release fairly soon after (2005?). This was rightly applauded at the time: it's overall dimensionally accurate, well detailed and had an effective loco drive using the much liked 5 pole skew wound 'black can' motor fitted to all the larger locos while Hornby were with Sanda Kan, their original manufacturing partner. (Was there a choice of tenders, the only one I had hands on had an eight wheel 'watercart' type?)

In short a RTR OO model at the level that a skilled kit builder and painter would have to work hard to match in appearance. It's not perfect 'inside': the motor mounting is weak if tampered with, the clumsy overlong electrical connection to the tender is by the wobbly wipers technique, and the chassis block is live to one rail; those last two legacies of Margate design long predating DCC, which are potential trouble for DCC users as they readily cause momentary shorts. All these are aspects that are easily fixed, enabling the owner to enjoy a very good layout model.(The near contemporary A3 and A4 models with the same mechanism construction that I own are still whizzing along nearly twenty years later, good as ever.)

[Ken Shabby]

I think the Sir Dinadan chassis is pretty much the same as the one on the Triang Hall, with the exception of the cylinders and the scaffolding like slide bars. The tender had been used a few years earlier with the Southern L1, so it seems they were able to come up with a large Southern loco pretty cheaply. The Southern makers plate on the cab side is a sticker, and the lining on the cylinder bloke is a paper label.
My Sir Dinadan orginally belonged to a mate, who found it in a toyshop about a decade after it had gone out of production. It's now in BR green livery, with BR lining applied straight over the top of white Southern lining , followed by a spray of sating varnish.
Despite having very chunky wheels for a loco made in 1976, It's still a decent runner.

Ken

[SRman]

... snipped ...

Once Hornby migrated tooling and production to China, with the rebuilt MN the first all newly tooled item to emerge in 2000, the very popular N15 class got an all new model release fairly soon after (2005?). This was rightly applauded at the time: it's overall dimensionally accurate, well detailed and had an effective loco drive using the much liked 5 pole skew wound 'black can' motor fitted to all the larger locos while Hornby were with Sanda Kan, their original manufacturing partner. (Was there a choice of tenders, the only one I had hands on had an eight wheel 'watercart' type?)

... snipped ...

Hornby really outdid themselves with the choices on the new N15 "Arthurs". Not only were there three types of tender (Drummond 'watercart', Maunsell-style bogie, and 6-wheel types), there were three types of cab (original LSWR flared roof, Maunsell rounded for 8-wheel tenders and Maunsell rounded for 6-wheel tenders, the latter had a different lower footplate curve), two footplate styles (for 6 or 8-wheel tender levels), plus different chimneys and fittings, and sold with or without smoke deflectors according to period. Almost no two were the same.

I have attached pics of three of the four I have. They are (not in any order):

• 30764 "Sir Gawaine" (see next post);
  30737 "King Uther";
  30777 "Sir Lamiel";
  30799 "Sir Ironside" (6-wheel tender).

I do still have two of the old-style 'Arthurs', because I put an awful lot of effort into modifying them into something better than they were, but they still aren't a patch on the newer ones straight out of their boxes. The last photo shows one of these, with a Wills 'watercart' attached, but still with its 7' long slide bars and very floppy front bogie. Note that I couldn't get bogie wheels with the correct number of spokes at that time. Edit: see the next post.

[SRman]

Sorry - I couldn't attach the last intended photos - here they are.

Original Triang/Hornby type, detailed.

... and 30764 "Sir Gawaine" of the newer type.

[Bigmet]

...Hornby really outdid themselves with the choices on the new N15 "Arthurs". Not only were there three types of tender (Drummond 'watercart', Maunsell-style bogie, and 6-wheel types), there were three types of cab (original LSWR flared roof, Maunsell rounded for 8-wheel tenders and Maunsell rounded for 6-wheel tenders, the latter had a different lower footplate curve), two footplate styles (for 6 or 8-wheel tender levels), plus different chimneys and fittings, and sold with or without smoke deflectors according to period. Almost no two were the same...

Thanks for this summary of how well researched and tooled the current Hornby N15 is. I was very impressed with the single specimen owned by a friend which came to me for mechanism improvements and decoder fitting, and was sorely tempted. (But of Hornby's SR tender locos produced around that time the one I went for was the Q1, as there is concrete evidence of this class at Ferme Park. This also received the mechanism improvements, and the visual improvement by removal of the clumsy 'Margate' loco to tender coupling enabled the delicate cab floor support to be fully appreciated: another very fine model which continues to please in all respects.)

[Firefly16]

Having hopefully sorted out image uploading problems (hence silence over past week) I will be pursuing this thread on the more appropriate Workbench board.

[Firefly16]

Further to my last post, I spoke too soon. Hopefully no one is holding their breath!