New to DCC. Cannot get Controller to recognise any locos.

[SquiddlyDiddly]

I have a DCC Problem. I have tried to explain the situation on more than one Model Railway Forum and all I get are standard basic responses straight out of the "Troubleshooting Manual", totally ignoring what I have written in my post. I appreciate people are trying to help but so far it hasn't helped. This is my first experience with DCC, although I got my DC first train set way back in 1960.
I do not have a Model Railway Layout at present as I moved house 3 years ago (downsized) and am undertaking a 5 year project to completely renovate the house I have moved into. I am also having to sell a lot of my collected locos and rolling stock in order to help fund my renovations. So to sell the loco's I have set up a test track on a piece of floorboard to ensure they run properly before I sell them.
On the same floorboard I have a second track. This track is for me to acclimatise myself with DCC concepts. As it is only a single track, it is in effect my program track. I purchased a new NCE Powercab starter system for me to use.
I followed the relatively simple instructions for connecting wiring to the track and then setting up the NCE controller to operate the system.And then I followed the also simple instructions to test a DCC fitted locomotive on the track...........and that is where my problem started. Nothing happened, the locomotive did not move.
Having worked on DC model railways all my life off and on, I knew at that poit that I needed to test other locomotives, re-test the connections and ensure that the wiring was in fact connected to the track properly.
In brief I tested a number of locomotives -Factory fitted Decoder, DCC ready with Decoder fitted, DCC ready with a different decoder fitted. Ran a DCC ready on my DC track, then fitted a decoder and tried to run it. I tried Hornby 8 pin deoders and Bachmann with 211 pin decoders. Everything produced the same result - no movement, no lights and no sound.
I even turned off the DCC, connected my DC conroller to the DCC wring and track and ran a DC locomotive perfectly on the same track.
I next tried to read a CV from all my loco options and the result was the same for all locomotives - "Cannot Read CV".
So my thoughts then turned to whether the Powercab controller was the problem. OK it showed that it was sending messages - but did they actially talk to the decoder? When asking to read a CV, did the controller actually send the message it was asking or was it that it could not receive the response.
By accident, I got a partial answer to this. I had two class 08 diesels on the shelf, both green livery but one was DC and one was DCC fitted. I put the DC loco on the track by mistake and connected the Powercab to the power, and...........the controller "buzzed". So that told me that the Powercab was at least getting a connection to the track.

[Richard08]

I don't know if it's true for all, but with my Lenz system it's not possible to (or at least I cannot) drive the train on the programming track, only program it.

[End2end]

This sounds to me (as I don't see it mentioned anywhere) like you're not addressing the correct DCC number for the loco's decoders.
If the DCC decoders are new they are usually set to 3.
Try putting a loco on the track (as the main track, not in "programming track" mode with reduced power) Set the controller to 3 and try to move the loco.
You may find that other locos are already programmed to a certain number and thus will only move when the controller is set to that number.
Try the running / engine numbers on the side of each loco as a next port of call if you don't know what the loco's decoders are set to.

Mine are set as 1- 15 because I can never remember loco classes or running numbers.
Thanks
End2end

[Bigmet]

I don't know if it's true for all, but with my Lenz system it's not possible to (or at least I cannot) drive the train on the programming track, only program it.

With the Lenz system that's exactly how it works: there is only (minimal) current on programme track when sending to or reading from the decoder, most of the time it is dead.

It'll be a cold day in hell before I move off Lenz: simple, unfailingly reliable, robust and neat construction, excellent documentation; seen several friend's purchases of newer and much more expensive systems 'roll over and die', or given up in frustration and replaced, while it soldiers on. I reckon mine has been powered up for use on over 5,000 days now, so it has cost me less than 4p per operating session...

(I have given 'squiddlydiddly' my best suggestion elsewhere.)

[SquiddlyDiddly]

Thanks for that I appreciate your time. So now have have two tracks............A program track and a "layout track" Same result' My fundamental issue is NOTHING RESPONDS ON THE PRORAMMING TRACK. If it doesn't respond on the Program track why should the same loco work elsewhere? If I purchased a Lenz system would I be able to get some sort of response from a loco on the Program track? If I cant resolve that I am best staying with DC. At least it works as supposed to. I have followed the instructions - to the T - for the Powercab and NOTHING responds to ANY COMMAND from the controller. I am perfectly understanding that the controller could be at fault. I guess my question is to find someone to give me an answer. So I buy a Lenz. And I have the same situation. Then I am down to a 1 metre piece of track soldered to wires going to a controller. Excuse me for being flippant. I am at my whits end. Maybe DCC is not for me.

[End2end]

It sounds like you're doing everything correctly except the transmission of data between the controller and SPECIFIC decoders.

Unlike DC where you turn the knob, the power to track increases and what ever is on the track moves, DCC speaks DIRECT to EACH decoder on it's own number. So if your controller doesn't match the decoder number in the loco you want to move, nothing will happen. No lights nor movement at all.

It's like talking French to a group of people. Only the French person within the group will understand even though everyone else can hear you making a noise.
Start talking Spanish and only the Spanish person in the group will understand.
Start talking another language which no one in the group speak and no one will understand.

Although I don't know your specific controller, I think I'm right in thinking, due to the lower power of the programming track a loco won't move. It will only judder slightly on the programming track when you send CV commands to the decoder.
This is how my controller works anyway.

Did you try matching the engine / loco number in the controller for the current loco sited on the running track?

Your controller might have the facility to "blind test / interrogate"? the decoder on your programming track without knowing what number the decoder is set to. Again, I'm not sure how exactly as I don't own the same controller.
Thanks
End2end

[centenary]

Im not that familiar with the Powercab although think it is a very good reliable system. Some DCC systems have separate program track and main track outputs. Im thinking Hornby's Elite and Gaugemaster's Prodigy. Both outputs should never be connected to the same piece of track else it can damage the DCC controller.

When the OP had a single track and if the Powercab had separate program and main track outputs, were these both connected to the track at the same time?

Are the chipped locos 2nd hand? If so, the previous owner may have turned off the DC function on DCC which is always a good idea.

Is the OP certain they fitted the chips the right way round ie pin 1 in pin 1 socket etc? Yes, we've all done it!

Are you trying to read the cv's long address ie 4 digit loco id or short address? I had issues with this until I figured it out!

Finally, is your test track clean? Dirty track will affect the ability to read and write cvs.

Is the OP trying to use the 'program on the main' option to read cvs? I think the Powercab can do programming on the main and program track.

POTM cannot read cv's and you need to know the loco's address to program it. If you want to read cv's, you must use the 'program track' option in the Powercab to do this.

Programming track function especially on starter systems like the Powercab do not have enough power to move a programmed loco although you should be able to operate any lights and sound functions so it's a bit of a faff using the program track to change cvs then use the main track to see if the loco runs.

As with any system, once a cv has been changed, you have to tell the system to 'write' or save the cv to the dcc chip. If the command to write the new cv isnt given or missed, the changed cv will not take effect.

If your system cannot read cv's on the program track using the program track function of the Powercab then, there's something wrong with it. Id therefore suggest taking a look at the Powercab instructions how to access the Program Track function (not program on the main) and follow these to the letter. If Program Track function doesnt work, you need to return it to the seller for investigation.

I wouldnt recommend buying another DCC system until you figure out what's going wrong else you could spend double and still have the same issues. The fact that nothing seems to work on DCC suggests something fundementally wrong although conversely, that could be something simple as trying to use POTM to read cv, dirty track or a faulty DCC control system etc.

Hope this helps but it's difficult to isolate the problem just via written text.

[Dad-1]

Pragmatic basic details.

I have come across people who misunderstand DCC ready, but it sounds like
you're certain all the locos you're trying to run DO have decoders fitted.

Make certain you never have both DC & DCC power into tracks at the same time .

Using a DC controller try the locos. Anything/everything should run. If not you have a continuity
or connection fault. All locos moving then the stock is O.K.

Remove DC power and replace with DCC. Check that tracks have basic AC current (I have a LED with resistor that
I use to check power is there) Now if at this point you have no track power then the controller must be suspect.

You need to address various locos, but if NEW initially ALL should respond to the default address 03.
As I don't have a NCE system I can't be specific as to it's operation.

I always use Track Power rather than programming track sources, it's higher and it's said that you can blow a decoder.
I've never blown one yet, anyway I like living dangerously !!

If you've still not cracked it perhaps someone living near might be prepared to help, give us a general area guide.
It would be easy if you were within 40 miles of Bridport, I could do it bringing my Hornby Select & Digitrax Zephyr as
test substitute controllers.

Geoff T.

[Richard08]

It's probably granny->eggs, but is there a button to switch to Programming Track mode on/off*? What you describe as happening, i.e. not a lot, sounds a lot like "Programming On Main" which it seems to work only with some decoders and then only a limited range of functions, and you would have to know the engine's address at the very least before starting. Putting an engine of the programming track should not require the engine address, you should be able to just read/write everything.

I've just been googling... It seems the NCE doesn't have a separate programming track output without the addition of a switch (their part no. 524-266), so as supplied it's going to be re-programing all engines on the track! This cannot be right, surely? Not relevant to your issue, I don't think, but a strange way of carrying on.

*says here it's via the PROG button, stepping through to 'POM'. It also says you have to know the engines address. Unless it's still at default (3) you'd be stuffed and have to try every number until you found it.... very unsatisfacrory.

Maye borrow/use someone else's controller to set one engine to a specific address and then try again as then you'd at lest be sure you have a valid address in there.

[End2end]

I'll reiterate as I don't see it addressed in your reply.

The controller needs to be set to the same number as the decoder in a loco for it to respond.
WHICHEVER track the loco is on.
If the numbers do not match nothing will work on the loco you're trying to control whether it be on the programming track changing and sending CV's to the decoder or moving on the main.
Your problem sounds as simple as this.
Thanks
End2end

[Richard08]

I'll reiterate as I don't see it addressed in your reply.

The controller needs to be set to the same number as the decoder in a loco for it to respond.
WHICHEVER track the loco is on.

I don't believe that is the case, certainly not with Lenz etc anyway. The whole point of the programming track idea is to allow full access to the decoder irrespective of it's current address, so that, for example, you can find out what address the engine is set to. This appears not to be the case with NCE Power Cab, god alone knows how you are supposed to cope with a s/h model with unknown address you just bought or a mate who's brought an engine round for a play that happens to have a duplicate address. Probably getting off topic now...

[End2end]

I'm using the K.I.S.S. system Richard.
Thus my first port of call.
Matching the controller to loco decoder number starting with the default 3 then moving onto loco running numbers to see if that is the correct number to communicate with the decoder without getting deep into the controllers settings or reprogramming a decoder just to make a loco move.
Using loco running numbers or Class seems to be quite prevalent for decoder numbers, I've noticed. So it seems a good starting point.

If that doesn't work then yes, it will have to be 'RTFM' to override any decoder number to reprogram it, as all controllers will no doubt do it differently.
Thanks
End2end

[End2end]

A quick question if you will...
Are you 100% sure a decoder is fitted and not a DCC blanking plate?

This would make sense if a loco runs on DC but not on DCC and would also explain the controller not being able to read a decoder as well.
If a loco is classed as "DCC READY" it doesn't have a decoder installed. It will run on DC unless you remove the DCC blanking plate inside and insert a DCC decoder.
I'm just trying to think of all the possible, simple steps first.
Thanks
End2end

[Richard08]

A quick question if you will...
Are you 100% sure a decoder is fitted and not a DCC blanking plate?

OP said he's tried a number of engines, some factory-fitted with DCC and at least one where he's removed (DC testing) and re-fitted the decoder. He also states he has tried with different decoders, so I can't see that being the problem.

At the back of my mind is having a similar problem trying to set up an Impirium decoder for the 14xx where the decoder failed to respond in any way as the OP describes. I was doing it through Rocrail so it's maybe not directly relevant, but after a coupe of hours getting cross I realised I had had a Homer moment ("Doh!") and missed something - but I cannot for the life of me remember what its was.

[Richard08]

OP - this *may* help. It seems the NCE has an entry in the PROG cycle menu for "Use Program Trk" which sounds promising. The link in bullet 5. is worth following too. https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/art ... ode-Method