Anyone currently buying?

[Phred]

captrees wrote ;
what is all this Black Friday nonsense

That had me baffled as well until someone told me it's an American thing, first Friday after thanksgiving or some such.

captrees wrote:
$600

Ouch! It's a good-looking unit though.

[captrees]

Nah. Not $600. That was the singing dancing bells and whistles edition. I got the poverty pack Black Friday version at $380 which I think is double what I've ever paid for a loco before.

But I have to say that the detail is the best I've seen. Windscreen wipers and little lights. It towed my 15 carriages up Shap Fell at half speed without drawing breath. It's a nice piece of kit, far, far better than any of my old steam clunkers.

No wonder British Rail went diesel.

It arrived today. I didn't tell the wife, but of course I tested it and put it back in its box so she can wrap it up, and I don't get to play with it till Christmas.

[Phred]

$380 is still way over my price range. I always feel like Mr Bean on Christmas morning when I unwrap the present I bought for myself. Surprise!

[centenary]

Debating whether to pull the trigger on a OO scale Bachmann Midland Pullman, the Hornby Rail Charter Service HST and coaches or, 25 yards of Legacy code 75 track to mention a few. Priority really is to crack on with the track laying but some of these locos look very tempting!

[Buelligan]

Hattons had a very good offer on the Rapido 'Lion', but I missed it, then remembered seeing a comment on Facebook, someone commenting on the hattons advert wondering if the offer was in reply to Hornby's half price 'Lion'. On to the Hornby website and Lion was purchased, on a little more than the Rapido version, but it comes with 3 coaches.

[Bigglesof266]

The model 37 with sound is in incredible $600.

I had a look on the big H, and prior to adding international shipping plus AU GST on top, all Class 37s were sold out on pre-order. Closest price I could see was GBP£259 & not sure if that price is representative of the more popular BR Green liveries. I did the calc from previous experience and the price shipped to AU works out at around the same in GBP as the UK VAT inc price prior to conversion less international CC/Paypal fee, less poxy conversion rate. Applying those to that price as it functions in effect IMPE, converted that works out circa AUD$565 (rounded to nearest $5). For a single loco, albeit DCC Sound Fitted. Marginally better than the $600 paid locally, but only just. And, I suspect the BR Green versions might be dearer than the single price I could glean. They are at Olivia's which'd bring a BR Green version (DCC Sound Fitted) in around the AUD$600 mark landed.

OTOH here's what AUD$519 just bought me NEW shipped to my door -with sound. It arrived the previous evening. Unpacked, set up and played yesterday. Sure it was admittedly opportunistic super buying on sale, but nevertheless.



That's no no-name cheapie or lowbrow brand, but a Gretsch!

A single loco now costs AUD$600! Why?

No new locos, or coaches or wagons for me at today's retail prices.

[centenary]

Well, a best offer 40 quid below asking price was accepted for the boxed, new, unused Bachmann Midland Pullman, dcc fitted x 2 decoders. Fingers crossed it survives the Christmas courier deliveries.

[Bufferstop]

A single loco now costs AUD$600! Why?

The Chinese craftsmen who make the tools to produce these models caught on to what their bosses were charging for the results of their hard work. It might be a communist country but the bosses understood the signs of dissent and not wishing to give up any of their income slapped some massive price rises on the finished article. Anyone who imagined 1980 Chinese prices would last was living in a fools paradise. In the end quality and detail cost in any currency.

[Bigglesof266]

A single loco now costs AUD$600! Why?

In the end quality and detail cost in any currency.

But you know that still doesn't answer the fundamental question adequately Bufferstop. It's a 1/76 scale toy train fitted with a $5 motor for goodness sake!

i.e. Relative to the outstanding quality guitar presented and its price all things considered. I have Gretsch (& other brand) guitars (& amps and other tech) manufactured in both Indonesia and China, so similar/same currency and labour rates (arguably higher for guitar making craftsman vs assembly line girls of a train model) with a heck of a lot more man hours and loads of CNC tooling necessary to produce a guitar like that. More expensive to ship too being much larger.

Another glaring example. If Hasegawa and Tamiya can produce a magnificent state of the art tooling and exceptionally detailed model like this or this in Japan for AUD$100 and AUD$160, which is a still a local ripoff BTW, then why still remains the question. And that's before we even look a Zouki Mura! The mould tooling costs including slide moulding tech are greater given their detail and slide moulding necessary to achieve a far more intricate level of detail than we'll ever see on any OO gauge train model. And the factory line assembly, painting packaging and shipping cost per unit of an Accurascale or Hornby loco, carriage or wagon would be minuscule comparatively. Materials next to nothing.

Given the variety of different models of guitars or plastic kits in any range, I don't think economies of market scale factor significant to that degree, although I have no empirical evidence to support that.

An even more glaring example. Zouki Mura super accurate super detailed kits. Much more intricate mould tooling costs for that, and higher due that factor exacerbated by being in Japan with costs in JPY! This kit is prices at just AUD$249 in Australia, which is a ripoff compared with what I can personally import it for from Japan single unit buy including very expensive International Japanese shipping which is usually the equivalent of the price of the model in a kit this size. Expensive relatively, with a limited small very niche market. But compare that with a contemporary Hornby or Accurascale loco at a whopping AUD$600! It just doesn't make sense to anyone with a modicum of logic cable of analysis and critical thought.

Seems to me someone is having a huge drink on the gullible cashed up consumer charging $600 for a loco, but not on me in 2023, nor likely in 2024.

[Bigmet]

...Given the variety of different models of guitars or plastic kits in any range, I don't think economies of market scale factor significant to that degree, although I have no empirical evidence to support that...

By happy chance just returned from seeing a relative on the east side of the North Sea, who is in the trade of musical instruments, and specialises in the ever popular guitar. He casually mentioned an annual figure of 25 Billion, whether Euro or USD I didn't enquire; and he was very upbeat about the ever rising tide of demand globally, forecast to double the market by 2030. Since he was driving a car selling for more than my house I reckon there's some evidence behind this.

[Bigglesof266]

By happy chance just returned from seeing a relative on the east side of the North Sea, who is in the trade of musical instruments, and specialises in the ever popular guitar. He casually mentioned an annual figure of 25 Billion, whether Euro or USD I didn't enquire; and he was very upbeat about the ever rising tide of demand globally, forecast to double the market by 2030. Since he was driving a car selling for more than my house I reckon there's some evidence behind this.

That's anecdotal not empirical. ;P

Anecdotally according to the State Yamaha rep I know well enough who's been with the company for more than a decade, in AU guitars sales account for a pittance of their business and revenue. Electronics, keyboards, pianos and brass wind instruments are their big chunk of the music segment.

In any case, affording your anecdote creedance that still doesn't account for the plastic kits mould tooling comparison, and the predominant buyer of said kits today demanding ever increasing detail is the older adult just like model railway. Kids don't build models today as we did in our childhood and youth. Too many other easier and more exciting distractions. So there's perhaps a more relevant volume comparison. Those kits I referenced and linked to are all large 1/32 scale very intricate and detailed at the top end of their market. 1/32 in aircraft is more of a niche than the general buyer. Defintely not the budget, mass or kiddie market.

However, re guitars I concur on potential economies of scale in terms of sheer volume. During COVID lockdowns guitar sales took off exponentially.

However that doesn't explain or present validity of the relative production, material and distribution costs of a guitar vs an oo gauge toy train with a $5 brushed motor unless a max gouge price point demand pricing model vs market competition model is taken into account for the latter.

As far as I can see there's just no way to justify a retail price of AU$600 for any single OO gauge loco other than the market's willingness to accept being price gouged. Or as Aussies of yore would have called it, "Come in spinner!". Just my perspective. I will pay $519 for the guitar formerly pictured SHIPPED to me. I won't pay AUD$700 PLUS international SHIPPING for this. Maybe it's just me?!

That said, gauging from the "Sold out on Pre Order" annunciation, apparently there are more than sufficient who are prepared to pay.

[centenary]

This kit of parts for an RC heli is nearly 3000 Euros. You still have to build it and supply your own RC gear including motor and electronic speed controller. I could buy a car for that.

https://www.vario-helicopter.biz/de/Fus ... 01193.html

[Bigglesof266]

This kit of parts for an RC heli is nearly 3000 Euros. You still have to build it and supply your own RC gear including motor and electronic speed controller. I could buy a car for that.

https://www.vario-helicopter.biz/de/Fus ... 01193.html

Poor analogy and failed deprecation/attempted sarcasm.

I used to fly and instruct RC fixed wing and heli. Still have a Robbe electric with a powerful (relatively expensive) German Hacker motor. You don't "build" them these days. Strictly minimal assembly and frequently you don't even have to do that. CURRENT Average price of a LARGE sized NEW nitro powered R/C heli is around the AUD$1k give or take AUD$100. Compare that with an OO gauge loco and the loco comes up and abysmal value FAIL. Factor in motor, gyro and RX/TX if you're a complete noob (that's like factoring in your Lenz or NCS controller system & DCC sound decoder too in buying a loco) make that AUD$2K not "€3000" which is about AUD$5k rounded up. Electric (LiPo powered) is even cheaper. Don't know of any NEW car I could buy for that in this country or elsewhere. And not a 'pre-loved' one which would pass roadworthy (UK MOT) to be street legal and liability insurable. Even if I were to be on a desperate POV search, cheapest new car here is around the AUD$23k on road and nothing I'd want to own (from a short term reliability and maintenance nightmare perspective) let alone drive -and I'm no vehicle snob. Cars are strictly an A->B device to me.

My original point stands. You don't have to approve or agree with it. AUD$700 for a single OO gauge loco as linked to in my previous post is too rich for my sensibilities. That's max gouge demand pricing. If it was a hand at the poker table I'd fold. If some others are content to pay that, so be it. To reiterate my position on current OO gauge pricing."Come in spinner!".

[Bigmet]

...If it was a hand at the poker table I'd fold...

I get that. It was fun using photographic film and printing from everything including Kodachrome slides. Then digital completely eliminated the formerly vital technical skill aspects, and the price for high grade kit rocketed upward: I walked away.

[centenary]

This kit of parts for an RC heli is nearly 3000 Euros. You still have to build it and supply your own RC gear including motor and electronic speed controller. I could buy a car for that.

https://www.vario-helicopter.biz/de/Fus ... 01193.html

Poor analogy and failed deprecation/attempted sarcasm.

I used to fly and instruct RC fixed wing and heli. Still have a Robbe electric with a powerful (relatively expensive) German Hacker motor. You don't "build" them these days. Strictly minimal assembly and frequently you don't even have to do that. CURRENT Average price of a LARGE sized NEW nitro powered R/C heli is around the AUD$1k give or take AUD$100. Compare that with an OO gauge loco and the loco comes up and abysmal value FAIL. Factor in motor, gyro and RX/TX if you're a complete noob (that's like factoring in your Lenz or NCS controller system & DCC sound decoder too in buying a loco) make that AUD$2K not "€3000" which is about AUD$5k rounded up. Electric (LiPo powered) is even cheaper. Don't know of any NEW car I could buy for that in this country or elsewhere. And not a 'pre-loved' one which would pass roadworthy (UK MOT) to be street legal and liability insurable. Even if I were to be on a desperate POV search, cheapest new car here is around the AUD$23k on road and nothing I'd want to own (from a short term reliability and maintenance nightmare perspective) let alone drive -and I'm no vehicle snob. Cars are strictly an A->B device to me.

My original point stands. You don't have to approve or agree with it. AUD$700 for a single OO gauge loco as linked to in my previous post is too rich for my sensibilities. That's max gouge demand pricing. If it was a hand at the poker table I'd fold. If some others are content to pay that, so be it. To reiterate my position on current OO gauge pricing."Come in spinner!".

I dont get why you're filling a thread with a 'woe is me! Im not paying x for a loco when I can get an instrument for less.' And you can buy a car for 3 grand.

I think we all agree the price of locos has gone up. But so too has everything else especially modelling related. Have you seen the cost of Tamiya plastic kits? The what I call 'quality' moulded and highly detailed ones are hundreds of UK pounds.

As for the claim you dont 'build' RC aircraft nowaday, This is incorrect. Yes, you can buy pre fabricated but many still engage in kit bashing. These kits arent cheap either. I know plenty in the model fraternity who will disagree. The point being these prices have rocketed as well. Your analogy is incorrect because if you want to compare the price of a model loco from Hornby etc which is pre built and fitted with electronics, you have to compare that to an RC model that has been pre built and gear installed. These are mega expensive.

You pays your money and all that.