First Iteration. Attic space

[David53]

Hello there

only my second post. Well Ive been messing around trying to design a layout for the Attic space. The layout is moderately large.
I will be going old school DC and applying older techniques to control and blocks.
I have a figure 8 bent at 90degrees and an end to end run. Also a shunting yard. It will be subject to change most likely and although i have all the curves and points to hand I dont have anywhere near enough straight track. So for your critique of the layout I present my first plan.

The dotted red outline to the right is a defunct flue. the red rectangles are where the roof trusses cross the plane of the proposed base.

regards
David

[End2end]

That's rather large.
Make sure you'll be able to reach all of the track to be able to clean it.
Thanks
End2end

[ChrisGreaves]

... the red rectangles are where the roof trusses cross the plane of the proposed base.

Hi David. These roof trusses, are they the wooden bits that criss-cross the space at about 45 degrees angle, making triangular shapes in the attic?
And do they extend roof-to-floor of attic?
Thanks, Chris

[David53]

Hello there

It is a bit isn’t it. I’ll probably have removable ‘man holes’ disguised with scenery that I can remove to get reach to the furthest areas.

I’ll probably have to tweak the layout to facilitate that but for now I have a something down to work with. It’ll be slow as finances are currently being siphoned to my wedding in December Once that’s over I can get my priorities back in order

Regards

David

[David53]

... the red rectangles are where the roof trusses cross the plane of the proposed base.

Hi David. These roof trusses, are they the wooden bits that criss-cross the space at about 45 degrees angle, making triangular shapes in the attic?
And do they extend roof-to-floor of attic?
Thanks, Chris

Hello there

Yes they do indeed but of a pain but I can work round them. Not that there is much choice really. I don’t want to be the one to explain to my partner why the roof is now laying in a heap outside the front door!

[End2end]

No mention of you running steam or diesel so this might be irrelevant....
As 2 of the 3 stations have run around loops / passing loops would it be prudent (for steam) if a loco could run around at the 3rd station too?
Thanks
End2end

[centenary]

Talk to me about track redesign! I think Im on about version 23 and I finally think Im getting there, LOL!

Will be OO, N or even TT? What will be your minimum radius for curves? How long will the trains be, the stations look very small for the overall size of your baseboards?

Do you intend to have a lot of locos and rolling stock or limited to just 1 or 2 locos and rolling stock? If so, that's a relatively large space with little on track storage and not a lot really going on unless you're intending to heavily scenic it?

Id prefer to have some stabling sidings either along the top edge of the 3.51m board or, down the side of the where the old flue is.

There's a big empty space from the hatch that's effectively 2m x 3m, is this used for storage or could you spread the layout into it?

Id seriously consider going DCC, not just to drive the trains but to future proof your layout. Locos also operate more realistically.

[David53]

Hello there

This will be an OO scale layout.

Rolling stock I currently have a duchess of Sutherland with one wagon, a small 040 that thinks it’s a Ferrari and a set of four wagons for same.

I will be getting a few more larger locos and a couple more shunter types plus the appropriate carriages and wagons.

Smallest radius is 1st but that will be used primarily on the shunting yards and branch line.

I appreciate the pros of DCC (I remember seeing it demonstrated on Tomorrows World back in the 80s) but I’ll be buying older stock to run so DC will suit the budget as I’ll mostly be get g second hand rolling stock.

You are right that there is not that much going on and I’m looking to balance scenic vistas with functional looks.

The platforms are just place markers at this point and I’m sure I’ll refine the layout some more. Stabling would add something to the layout for sure. The hardest part is despite a scale plan the real world layout is what will really show up the space wasted of to compact.

I did wonder about having a track run below level as a fiddle yard store as well.

He area that is empty below the hatch in the plan is where my 3D printers will live. Currently they are to the right where the new layout is planned. The top section of the layout base does exist. Though I am likely to strip it all out and build it again.

I do need to sort out storage for ‘stuff’ by putting shelves proper under the layout and printers. Complicated isn’t it

[End2end]

I appreciate the pros of DCC (I remember seeing it demonstrated on Tomorrows World back in the 80s)

That would have been Hornby's ZERO1 system I would assume. It's wasn't DCC (AFAIK DCC hadn't been invented yet) but the premise was sort of the same.
I would say DCC is much more advanced than ZERO1 ever was.

Also You can retrofit a lot of older loco's with DCC chips. It's fairly simple to hard wire in a simple decoder. Just be aware of split-chassis loco's.
And no faffing around with track power districts either.
Loco and coach lights staying on when stationary sold me, let alone sound (if you want it) and multi-control of rolling stock.
It really is worth it.
Thanks
End2end

[David53]

Hello there

…… DCC is very tempting I suppose at this point I’m also at some sort of advantage as I only have two locos that would need decoders. So maybe a decent second hand controller that I scan have sound and the more realistic control.

I have tinkered with lights in one of the carriages they look great. The Duchess is a split power unit I think but I guess you just need to wire a decoder correctly to use it. So in theory I could still benefit from buying second hand rolling stock and use the savings to DCC them.

Ok you peaked my interest. What system would give me the basics for the trains. I’m quite happy to do points, signals and the like with old analogue tech. I play with electronics on and off so soldering isn’t an issue.

Regards

David

[End2end]

The cheapest and easiest to use would probably be the Bachmann EZ command DCC controller.
It's limited to 9 DCC'd trains and has limited extended DCC commands too but it's a great cheap starting point.
You can buy add-on DCC slave controllers for it too but this does not increase the 9 available DCC address's.
It will control DCC point motors as well but these will take up one of the 9 available DCC addresses'.
I bought mine as part of a cheap 2nd hand train set, sold all the rest (including the toy-like DCC fitted trains) and eventually sold the controller too and bought an all singing all dancing DCC controller, but basically everything's in the train set to get you started.

s-l500.jpg (31.93 KiB) Viewed 634 times

I've heard too many problems with the entry level Hornby DCC controller. I wouldn't touch it with a shunter's pole!
Thanks
End2end

[centenary]

Hello there

…… DCC is very tempting I suppose at this point I’m also at some sort of advantage as I only have two locos that would need decoders. So maybe a decent second hand controller that I scan have sound and the more realistic control.

I have tinkered with lights in one of the carriages they look great. The Duchess is a split power unit I think but I guess you just need to wire a decoder correctly to use it. So in theory I could still benefit from buying second hand rolling stock and use the savings to DCC them.

Ok you peaked my interest. What system would give me the basics for the trains. I’m quite happy to do points, signals and the like with old analogue tech. I play with electronics on and off so soldering isn’t an issue.

Regards

David

You'll get loads of different responses to which DCC system to get especially just for train control. Id suggest the Gaugemaster Prodigy Express, I think current cost is circa £195. Comes with enough power to run upto four OO scale locos. It doesnt have accessories control for points and signals etc as it is classed as a starter system but as many people who buy all singing and dancing DCC sets that do, they tend to find changing a couple of points via the DCC controller while also driving a loco can be difficult and many use separate control for these negating why they paid extra to have it built in their controller to start with.

The Prodigy Express does all train functions including lighting and sound activation provided the locos have a DCC sound chip. This means you can add more power output, point control and signals via Gaugemaster, DCC Concepts, MegaPoints Controllers or other manufacturers modules later or just use plain DC to control these. You can also spread the budget as you arent buying in one big hit.

I have this and consider it a good system.

Alternatively, the NCE Powercab which is a full DCC control and accessory system is available for circa £240. The Hornby Elite is a relatively good DCC system although a little clunky. I bought one but sold it on pretty sharpish.

Many of the modules for points and signals are now plug and play with soldering frequently no longer required.

You have a lot of space so Id seriously consider ditching 1st radius curves even in sidings. Only the smallest wheel base locos will get around them and being short wheelbase, may have issues cutting out on points that arent electro frogs.

Ive planned my layout in a 5m x 2.6m integral garage. My minimum radius is 545mm which is about the equivalent of about 3.5 radius.

There are lots of track options on the market with Code 75 and 100 flexi track in flat bottomed or bullhead as opposed to set track. Older rolling stock wheel flanges may bottom out on Code 75 track so it does depend how old the stock you intend running will be.

Obviously, the costs start to mount up the more scale like you go! Even on a budget, Id say DCC trumps DC but that's just my opinion and Ive got a lot of Hornby Dublo stored in the loft.

HTH.

[Richard08]

I finished up with DCC simply because I had occasion to be able to buy a system - plus I have an obsession with lighting up my train set - but was perfectly content with DC otherwise. Converting from DC to DCC on a 'completed' layout was a bit of a pain, misbehaving points and so on, so I say go DCC at the start if you think you'll be going down that road later. Also, if running multiple trains, or wanting automatic operation, plugging the controller into your computer with Rocrail or such opens up a whole world of opportunities (interlocking signalling and so on). I finished up with the current Lenz controller, not cheap by any means (you used to be able to buy them direct from Europe much more cheaply than the UK but alas those days are gone), but I did that for three reasons; Lenz have a big input to defining standards so are likely to be the most future proof; the firmware of the controller is updateable (just plug in a memory stick and it sorts itself out); 3A current (I'm O gauge); and fourthly the unit is indestructible; oh and fifthly, being German, the work-flow to use it is extremely well thought out. It can also be used in DC mode (Engine address 0) - apparently, not tried it.

Would I have gone DCC at the start (of lock down)? No, as in fact I didn't. Should I have gone DCC at the start - yes (it pains me to say that, there's still vestiges of traditionalist old me lurking). Is DCC worth the candle? Yes - I'm converted to the cause. But then I do like messing with technology just because I can. Why? Well, lights and there's something about having my entire fleet of engines (all three of them) running at the same time on a small end-to-end layout. With (non sound) decoders getting ever cheaper the economic argument, that I used to buy into, is getting weaker (unless you have a massive collection). Is sound worth it? Well, I haven't switched on sound for months now, it's unnecessary window dressing to me (tin hat donned) - and ridiculously expensive, the guys that record the sounds must be on royalties musicians can only dream of! .

It may not be for a year or two, but I can well imagine someone or other releasing DCC only models sooner or later (additional tin hat donned, with body armour).

[Richard08]

Hello there

only my second post. Well Ive been messing around trying to design a layout for the Attic space. The layout is moderately large.
I will be going old school DC and applying older techniques to control and blocks.
I have a figure 8 bent at 90degrees and an end to end run. Also a shunting yard. It will be subject to change most likely and although i have all the curves and points to hand I dont have anywhere near enough straight track. So for your critique of the layout I present my first plan.

The dotted red outline to the right is a defunct flue. the red rectangles are where the roof trusses cross the plane of the proposed base.

regards
David

Just noticed - unless I'm miss reading the sketch, you are going to have to be able to reach ~1.8m to get to back of the layout, is that intentional?

[Bigmet]

...It may not be for a year or two, but I can well imagine someone or other releasing DCC only models sooner or later (additional tin hat donned, with body armour).

We have already had OO models of glued assembly: let's make mechanism access difficult. That designer would quite likely have 'progressed' from that concept, had not his business failed...