DCC plan query

[barney121e]

Hi All

Can someone confirm if i have the dcc connectors in the right place?

Thanks

[Flashbang]

Hi
While your plan will work, you are relying on the points being set to the required track to apply DCC power, the unset direction (Route) would be unpowered. With DCC the idea is not to have any dead sections regardless of a points position. There are a couple of options to overcome this....
1) If OO then you could use Hornby point clips R8232 - two per point.
2) A better option IMO is to run a DCC power Bus of two reasonably sized wires around under the layout and tap off the Bus pair with smaller wire sized Droppers and feed all rails after the points and also to as many places around the layout tracks as possible.

[barney121e]

Hi
While your plan will work, you are relying on the points being set to the required track to apply DCC power, the unset direction (Route) would be unpowered. With DCC the idea is not to have any dead sections regardless of a points position. There are a couple of options to overcome this....
1) If OO then you could use Hornby point clips R8232 - two per point.
2) A better option IMO is to run a DCC power Bus of two reasonably sized wires around under the layout and tap off the Bus pair with smaller wire sized Droppers and feed all rails after the points and also to as many places around the layout tracks as possible.

Sorry, it was option 2 that i was trying to find out where to put the droppers.

[Roger (RJ)]

With DCC you are recommended to have as many power feeds as possible. Many people have power feeds to every piece of track to avoid relying on track joiners to pass power from piece to piece. This means that all track is live at all times. This is why a track bus is recommended to make it easier to feed power to the whole of the track.

[End2end]

I soldered droppers to every piece of track except the points.
7.0 sized wire droppers connecting to a 32.0 sized wire DCC bus (running all round underneath the layout).
I found it easier to solder a lot of the droppers onto the outsides of the rails of the track pieces before they were laid.

When soldering the droppers onto the track make sure no wire or solder protrudes above the rail head (rail top).

Once the track is laid, painting the sides of the track will cover the solder joint.
I used Railmatch sleeper grime. Available everywhere appropriate.
https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/magen ... m2406.html
Thanks
End2end

[barney121e]

Ok, fully understand the bus. My question was were my droppers in the right place. Seems i don't have enough, so is there now enough on new pic below. Red is where the droppers would be. Or is there any place i have missed one. Appreciate i could put a dropper on each piece but for my sanity if i can understand the minimum, it will help.

Cheers

[End2end]

Not quite I think.
Add droppers on the pieces of track immediately before and after the points on every point, as Flashbang mentioned.

Something I have also just noticed.
Some of your straights are made up of multiple pieces of track could be replaced by less pieces of track.
The station area tracks (left of the pointwork) are made up 6 pieces of track.
This could be reduced to 5 at least.
The rear through tracks made up of 6 could be reduced to 4 at least.

Less pieces of track = less droppers to solder on.

If your going to use a dead end siding as a drive-in/drive-out isolated programming track you'll need to cut both rails and add droppers to to the rails either side of the cut.
The programming track droppers will need to be dealt with differently rather than connecting directly to the DCC bus.

Match the 2 colours of the dropper wiring with the DCC bus wire colours for easy identification.
Thanks
End2end

[barney121e]

Not quite I think.
Add droppers on the pieces of track immediately before and after the points on every point, as Flashbang mentioned.

Something I have also just noticed.
Some of your straights are made up of multiple pieces of track could be replaced by less pieces of track.
The station area tracks (left of the pointwork) are made up 6 pieces of track.
This could be reduced to 5 at least.
The rear through tracks made up of 6 could be reduced to 4 at least.

Less pieces of track = less droppers to solder on.

If your going to use a dead end siding as a drive-in/drive-out isolated programming track you'll need to cut both rails and add droppers to to the rails either side of the cut.
The programming track droppers will need to be dealt with differently rather than connecting directly to the DCC bus.

Match the 2 colours of the dropper wiring with the DCC bus wire colours for easy identification.
Thanks
End2end

Unfortunately i cant get any ST204 straights anywhere, tried the usual places but no luck, hence the smaller track sections, but if i find any tomorrow will swap.

I keep reading that droppers shouldnt be too close together, but also a maximum of 3 feet apart. Appreciate there are lots of different views, does anyone know why there are all these different views?

[End2end]

I keep reading that droppers shouldn't be too close together, but also a maximum of 3 feet apart. Appreciate there are lots of different views, does anyone know why there are all these different views?

On a layout your size you can just disregard this information.
As has been said, the reason why we solder droppers to each piece of track is so we are not relying on fishplates for electrical continuity.
Every piece of track LIVE as it were.
Just soldering the droppers at the middle of each piece of track is simple enough to overcome any "too close together" rhetoric.
Thanks
End2end

[jed10]

Ok, so there's no "need" to have droppers for every piece of track but there are good reasons why many of us adopt this practice. Likewise there's theoretically no reason why you shouldn't build your dcc layout with set track and insulfrog points but there are good reasons why many would avoid that.

So, let's try and understand the issues and then you can decide how far you are prepared to compromise.

A dcc signal isn't just providing power to run your locos. It's sending a digital command signal which is vital to instruct your locos and other accessories what to do. It's therefore important that this signal is maintained at a high quality to ensure that information being sent isn't corrupted. It's not just about volts passing from one section to another and having sufficient current. With dcc, signal integrity is everything. Good electrical connections are a vital first step (after installing your bus wire but this, and the choice of cable etc. is extensively discussed elsewhere). When you first lay your track it's quite likely that the fishplates will be a tight fit and make a good connection but this may deteriorate over time. The more track joins you rely upon for dcc continuity the more likely it is that sooner or later you'll have a problem. Obviously, using set track compared with flex track you'll have significantly more joins. With insulfrog points, as your train passes over there will always be a very short cut off of power as your train passes over the dead frog. Even if you have power feeds either side of the point you can't avoid this. Mostly that will be fine because the loco will have more than one pick up but you may find it is a problem for some locos. You'll also find that the tighter radius on set track points may cause a problem, particularly where you have two together on a crossover. They should be fine for fiddle yard sidings but maybe try not to use them on your main line.

Taking all that into account there are some practical steps you can take which will be a good investment to avoid problems in the future:
a) Buy some lenths of flex track and use this on your straight runs (it is very easy to use on straight runs). Make sure you get the larger 'code' so that it will match up with your set track. Keep the set track curves if you wish unless after using the flex track you get a new found confidence in using it.
b) Where you have back to back sets of points used for crossovers, consider replacing these for streamline electrofrog, or better still Unifrog, points. Depending on how you are operating your points think about how you will power the frogs - using Cobalt IP Digital motors will make this very simple.
c) Fit droppers with bus connections to as many sections of track and points as you can practically manage. Remember that conductivity through nickel silver rail isn't as good as through copper wire so don't leave too much distance between droppers.
d) On sections where you haven't put droppers, solder the fishplates to the side of the track to improve the connection (you may need to practice this on a spare bit of track first).
e) Ignore all the dodgy misinformation you read about distances between droppers or ring buses. Just keep your wiring neat and avoid using screw terminals. Solder joints are always best but of you don't have the confiddnce for this then use Wago type connectors.

Above all, enjoy building your layout.

[End2end]

Most of that was mentioned already jed.

Streamline points are larger than set track points so if going this route the plan will need significant changes to accommodate them.
Not sure about unifrog points though.
Are they the same dimensions as either streamline or settrack?
Thanks
End2end

[Flashbang]

Streamline set the two parallel tracks to 50mm track centres, while Setrack and Hornby set the centres to 67mm, so short lengths of track are need in a crossover to correct the parallel track spacing back to Setrack. Next, Streamline points are not a direct drop in for Setrack points! Streamline has a larger turnout radius and overall a larger footprint.
Unifrog are to the Streamline footprint.

Soldering fishplates is not ideal, as it can cause rail buckling and distortion when the air temperature rises.

You can use Code 100 Peco Streamline flexible track with both Peco Setrack and Hornby track, but there are no rail joiners provided with Streamline, these are an extra as part No. SL-10. You will normally also have to remove the first sleepers rail fixing (Rail Chair) from both sides on the flexible track to allow the joiners to slide onto the rails. Where flexible track meets at a points Vee its also often necessary to remove the sleeper ends of two sleepers to allow the sleepers to be spaced correctly, and not hit the opposite tracks sleepers, this is a sort of tapered end of sleeper removal.

[End2end]

Unifrog are to the Streamline footprint.

Thanks Flashbang. As they are somewhat new to the market I wasn't sure.
Thanks
End2end

[barney121e]

Thanks for all the information. Still torn between DC and DCC, especially with extra costs of the DCC chips but not totally out of the question. Any suggestions for cheaper decoders for older locos would be helpful.

Also just found out i need a 50w plus soldering iron, always thought lower was better.

Here is track laid down, just so i get an idea of plan in real live.

[Roger (RJ)]

50 watt soldering iron - What for?