New; well, first layout..

[Zoso]

Hi, Long time listener, (pretty much) first time caller.

As a kid, I had some model train kit (00 gauge) and my dad and I always had intentions of building a layout. Well, now I'm older than he was then, and I'm finally getting around to it having broken my neck and being off work. Apologies in advance for the waffling, this post is just basically logging what has taken place up to date.

So, I had flirted with a few ideas a couple of years back and was looking at 6'x4', or maybe 8'x4' IF I could get permission to use the space, but again, it never happened.

Recently though, I purchased one of the Hornby Grand suspension Bridges so that I could put it on a shelf with a loco on it as a static display, and once my partner saw it, she encouraged me to get it working properly!

After a number of changes at home, I now have a decent sized garden room which has been set up as a gym/storage area for my bikes. Having spent some time thinking about what I'd like to build in terms of a model, I revisited my earlier research of board layouts and did like a lot of what I saw. The only problem I had with them though, was that one could see the train going around and around the outside of the board, and even if it went over various areas of the board in different directions etc; I thought it may feel a bit 'toy like'. I mean absolutely no offence to those who enjoy that kind of setup, but thinking about having a pub and a few buildings, with three railway lines in front and behind them completely trapping them in a miniature Truman show world just felt a little like it might get boring; also, initially, I wanted to utilise the suspension bridge I bought, but this might look daft on a little board..

So, I then thought about a shelf mounted setup which could go from the garden room, through a tunnel in the wall into the other adjoined garden cinema room, do a loop in there around the top of the room (top of door hight), then back in on the other side of the doorway, continue around the main room, then complete the circuit. My intention was to have a slightly larger section of shelf with a station and fiddle yard, but narrower (maybe 6") shelves going around the perimeter to allow me to use nice long trains, have gentle radius curves and altitude changes and importantly, the train going out of sight for a while before returning from the other side.

I began to look at shelf layouts a little and thought about what I might like to do on the walls.. Cliff side, mountain railway perhaps.. I tend to make things up as I go along normally, so there wasn't much planning, certainly no snazzy computer plans, or even hand drawings to be fair. I purchased a Gaugemaster backdrop and thought I'd make it up as I went along. As I was looking, I noticed that one of their scenes; I think it's called English market town or something, is of my hometown. I have seen this well utilised lots of other folks setups online, but being from that place, it would look odd to me to see such a familiar scene and it be completely out of context and totally inaccurate, so I want for a more generic countryside one.

That backdrop did get me thinking though! My hometown did have a station and was quite well connected by rail, but this was shamefully ripped out like so much of the rail network in the 60s. That said, living not far from where the station was, I know the area well, have lots of photos and can remember the area when it was very different to how it is today. So, I began to think about re-creating a model of this station as my main board/station/fiddle yard.

I found two old track plans of the area, one showing the layout in 1890, and another after GWR took it over showing how it stood in the late 30's at it's peak. Ok, so I'm not particularly worried about historical accuracy, ie. I will have LMS and LNER locos running on it; but I will try to make it look as close as I can within reason. I would hope that my dad for instance, will recognise it when he sees it! That said, due to space constraints, I will be mainly basing it on the older track plan, but may employ some of the more complete junction options that were adopted in the later design. It has a station building in the centre, with an enclosed footbridge with platforms either side of the two lines passing through. Both platforms have canopies, and there are two passing loops behind the rear platform. To the left of the layout there is a goods yard with a decent sized goods shed (which is still there today), this shed has two track running through and a few sidings around it. On the right hand side there is another platform on the front side of the main platform, a few more sidings and an engine shed (which also still stands). There is one line leaving from the left, (at the rear of the layout), and two lines leaving from the right, one at the front and the other at the rear of the layout.

So, my next step was to plonk lots of my old corroded set track onto the kitchen floor and figure out what I could feasibly achieve. It quickly became much larger than anticipated. But after a lot of tweaking and a few compromises (such as not being rigid on accuracy), I think that I've got a decent enough plan to run with using an 8'x2' board that is a fairly good representation. This will have a 1' shelf leaving from each side to take the lines away which will make the loop. Obviously once off the board, there will be complete artistic licence and will likely be entirely made up. I have already purchased some plywood as well as a bunch of new track and laid it out loosely. It seems to fit OK, but I will need to do a bit more work and probably buy a few more pieces before I commit to nailing it down. Most of it has been a dry run with standard track pieces, so I may be able to make it a little more economical space wise once I start trimming and using flex track.

I've also already made a few Metcalfe buildings. I am no painter, so wanted to go for 'ready finished' kits. they are not perfect matches to be historically correct, but I bought the kits which resembled the building as closely as I could, and then adapted them to make them a little more closely, although still not totally accurate, they look ok to me.. I managed to alter the shape of the footbridge so it has a turn on the stairs rather than a landing on a straight run of steps, and also changed the station building a fair amount to make the building footprint and roof design look a little more as it should. The signal box isn't really right, but I'm not worried about that because the standard kit wasn't a million miles away..

So, that is where I'm at! Apologies again for the waffling, I will look into how to post pictures and upload some as soon as I figure it out!

I may need some help/advice on track bed/ballasting etc when the time comes, at the moment, it is bare plywood.

[Bigmet]

That's quite an ambitious plan. An issue you have to be aware of is that operating trains 'out of sight' requires high reliability to be successful, and your own skills in track support construction, track laying and wiring, making necessary adjustments to the traction and rolling stock, and a maintenance routine will be key to this.

Initial suggestions:
No set track, it imposes serious limitations. Use a flexitrack system with live crossing points as large radius as can be fitted in, and aim at 36" radius curves as a minimum, especially on the out of sight sections.
Use DCC for control.
Careful selection of traction and rolling stock: what's currently available in RTR OO covers a range from crude toy to decently engineered, and you'll need those toward the decently engineered end of the spectrum.
Build a test section and assess what reliability is achieved, before cutting holes in walls.

The above is me with the 'engineer' hat on! If this systematic approach doesn't appeal, don't let it put you off: it may be that your skills will easily deal with all the necessary factors and you can simply 'wing it' and achieve something that pleases you. This is a hobby, and should be fun...

[Mountain]

Hi and welcome.

I think most of us starts out with one plan and changes it as we go along... Normally I only have rough ideas. I have overcome the painting issue that you describe in a different way in that I discovered consistency and I just happened to find myself modelling in a scale and gauge where there have been very few ready made models, so out of my small expanding collection of projects I would say that nothing that is built has gone without me painting it even if it already has a factory painted finish on it.
This means that as everything is painted, it all looks consistent with each other.

Now i am not saying that everyone should do this because to buy lovely new models that are so nicely finished that one would not want to paint them at all.... But what I am saying is that if you aim for a consistent approach everything will blend in nicely.

When I was enjoying 00, I had a dilemma as I had three makes of card kit for my buildings. Metcalfe, Prototype and Superquick along with plastic kits from various makes, and even the occasional excellent Skaledale ready made resin cast buildings.
Metcalfe and Superquick did have a different finish but it was less noticable so as long as one was sensible they could blend in, but the Prototype kit stood out more.
Worse still were trying to mix the plastic kits and the ready made and painted resin buildings with the card. It all didn't look right!
The consistency was all out and the problem is that I knew something was not right but I could not work out what it was at the time. I only noticed what was going on when I had changed tto model in 7mm narrow gauge where everything I had has to be scratch or kit built (Not as difficult as I had thought as there are easy to build kits out there).
It was while I was painting that I realized that due to everything being painted by the same person (Me) that it all blended in nicely.

Now this same idea you can bring about by carefully choosing pre-coloured buildings from makes that blend in well with each other, and are made from similar materials. E.g. card with card or plastic with plastic etc. I found Superquick and Metcalfe card kits... Though they were not quite the same, they did seem to blend in well together if carefully placed. What did not work so well for me was having many card kits and then one sits a lovely Scaledale resin ready made building next to them. Nothing wrong with the Scaledale building. They are excellent masterpieces in my view! And nothing wrong with the card buildings from Metcalfe or Superquick. What was happening was they were not matching each other in style. Ok if one make was used the Scaledale traditional cottages and one used card kits for new blocks of flats etc, but when both makes stood side by side and were supposed to be of similar types of buildings (E.g. brick or stone) and it did not look right.

So my advice is to consider adopting a consistent approach, and if mixing things that don't blend in, consider using the different makes for buying different types of building so that ones eye will not notice and blend in the scene better.

But above all, scrap what I say and just have fun!

[End2end]

No long post from me. I think Bigmet and Mountain have covered most points.
So just a, hello and welcome to the forum.
Thanks
End2end

[Zoso]

Thanks very much for the pointers, very much appreciated!

I understand the points about hidden sections, but to clarify, although they will go ‘out of sight’, as in behind me; the track won’t be inaccessible and all and would be viewable by following the train around. I certainly will get the initial station area working as an end to end board first absolutely before I drill holes in the walls! That being said; they are walls that I made so I know how they’re constructed..

I will be using flex track, I only used the set track to do a quick feasibility check.

I have quite a few Wrenn dc locos and a gauge master dc controller, so had planned on using that. I have looked at Dcc possibilities, but am still leaning to dc. I’m fairly handy with woodwork and wiring, and although I’ve not done this stuff before, I’m fairly confident I’ll be able to get it to work..

I have now created the the main 8’x2’ shelf in the shed and have mocked up the layout a little more neatly.

Re buildings; in total, there will only be the station building, footbridge, signal box, goods shed and engine shed and have already got most of it ready in for he metcalfe kits. I will indeed keep them consistent!

[Zoso]

Carpet feasibility check:

https://www.flickr.com/gp/191340649@N02/3712Nv

https://www.flickr.com/gp/191340649@N02/17224U

https://www.flickr.com/gp/191340649@N02/SF4UmW

Wooden board in the shed:

https://www.flickr.com/gp/191340649@N02/6019H4

The shelf is now up, and I have re laid the track:

https://www.flickr.com/gp/191340649@N02/q9x617

I am still experimenting with some the placements etc, and am yet to trim any of the flex tack to fit…

[Zoso]

Having thought about it; would like to say, it’s very refreshing to have responses with clearly experienced and considered advice offered, but always with the overriding sentiment of ‘it’s supposed to be fun so it doesn’t really matter’.

It makes for a really relaxed and friendly atmosphere, so thanks again!

[Dad-1]

I tend to keep my nose out of peoples projects, but thought I'd throw some spanners in the works.

First basic observation is most modellers don't know exactly what part of this extensive hobby is going to be their favourite
place. Be prepared to work small at the beginning allowing you to evaluate what you really like. My example was that I was
going to stay blue diesels. I found passenger trains boring and freight was the main interest. That took me into steam traction.

Layout type ? I find that my Roundy-Roundy is in constant use, yet apart from the building process rather boring, however
essential for running locos in, testing wagon kit builds, plus quite relaxing to watch 15 to 20 wagons roll around slowly.
The End to End layout restricts the amount of stock you can run unless you have 30 or 40 feet to play in. It requires constant
driving so no relaxing rumble of that circulating train. Then currently (Note life changes) I'm enjoying short end to end shunting
Puzzle layouts. The important word there is Puzzle as you have to drive to attain a prescribed wagon order, so there is purpose
and thinking required to achieve the required outcome.

Planning. Simply essential to know exactly what the end requirement is to be. The better the planning the better the layout.
My best layout was planned with even contour lines drawn on the boards. For me it HAD to be scenically interesting and to
achieve that the track bed was built at some 3.5 inches above board base datum.

Operating, Like Bigmet I'd be looking at DCC because of the quality slow running. An analogue locomotive runs on up to 12 Volts,
to reduce speed you reduce the voltage. As the voltage gets low the motor hasn't got an adequate power supply and will stop
from speeds higher than in my case I want the train to run. So the end result is jerky fast starts and rapid stops.
With Digital the decoder allows full track power pulsed into the motor and I often run long freights as slow as a scale 2-3 mph,
in fact recently did a couple of laps on my round-roundy at UNDER a scale 1/2 MPH pulling 15 wagons !!

I think I'll stop here, but for robust track I'd stay code 100, always use live-frog pointwork with polarity switching. I'd not use
older locomotives with their wide wheels, certainly no split chassis, or tender drive. To me the scenic part is so significant, but
I know some enjoy prototypical working rather than a time consuming, dust collecting pretty scenes.

More thinking perhaps ??

Geoff T.

[Zoso]

Thanks Geoff, taken on board..

I will give further consideration to Dcc for the reasons you state, I do have a couple that are ddc ready so it is a possibility.

As far as the rest of it goes, although it is being planned (in my head) and it has changed a number of times, I’m not someone who enjoys planning ahead, I much prefer to get stuck in and amongst it. Not sure if you are able to see the pictures, but the table is up already!

To be honest, it may be the process of building it that I enjoy the most, the whole lot might be in a skip this time next year (although I doubt it!!), but I love turning my hand to new things and being a bit creative! I like the idea regarding the levels above the baseboard by the way, definitely food for thought, I was intending to contour is somewhat, but not sure by how much yet..

Doubtlessly I’ll make mistakes, but to be fair, I won’t know what I enjoy more until live lived with it, and as I said above, the building of it may be the most fun part of it, and the on the fly/get stuck in nature of how I do my projects.. I take your point, but starting small won’t give me the same level of enthusiasm and enjoyment as getting stuck in has, even if it would avoid the expense of ending up with something I don’t use to it’s fullest potential.

However, I totally agree with you that the ability to have something on a continuous run is beneficial, in fact it is almost a prerequisite for me, but I am still thinking about how I will do that.. As for shunting puzzles etc, that is of interest and I have made sure that there are options to do this type of thing within the station I am looking at doing..

[Dad-1]

Hi Zoso,

I'd agree that building is the key element, but everything I make tends to be built to last. You then reach the situation
where there is no room to continue. It is also possible to run out of ideas, something I'm suffering from at the moment.

Anyway - here is an example of raised tracks, plus the benefits of good slow DCC running.
https://youtu.be/07Ft649I43c

To my shame, or otherwise, this is still not finished, but started life in 2010 !!

Geoff T.

[Zoso]

Thanks Geoff, I’ll check it out!!

Yeah I do tend to over engineer myself too! I’m much the same, I’ve had a few tri-decade projects myself!

[Zoso]

Hi Zoso,

I'd agree that building is the key element, but everything I make tends to be built to last. You then reach the situation
where there is no room to continue. It is also possible to run out of ideas, something I'm suffering from at the moment.

Anyway - here is an example of raised tracks, plus the benefits of good slow DCC running.
https://youtu.be/07Ft649I43c

To my shame, or otherwise, this is still not finished, but started life in 2010 !!

Geoff T.

Just watched your video! Thanks ever so much for that, and it does indeed make the point nicely! I’m not worried about sound, so a basic Dcc controller would be fine. Having seen that, I may tinker with the dc for a short time above board before I put scenery etc in islets final place, then look into Dcc again when I do the more discreet wiring setup under the board..

Thanks again for posting the video, although I can’t imagine running a train that slowly myself, it is very impressive!

[ChrisGreaves]

The shelf is now up, and I have re laid the track:
https://www.flickr.com/gp/191340649@N02/q9x617
I am still experimenting with some the placements etc, and am yet to trim any of the flex tack to fit…

Hello ZoSo. I enjoyed reading your initial post and all the responses so far.
I clicked on this last link and was taken to Flickr and a photo of your 8x2 baseboard with a rough layout of track.

So far so good

Then I clicked on the right-pointing arrow at the RHS of the image and was treated to some shots of your car's GPS/Stereo system.
No embarrassing pictures of your wife and children, though, which is good news.

To post an image with your post, rather than to your Flicker account, look for the tab "Attachments" just below the box where you key in your text. Browse to an image, "choose Add Files" and that image (and others if you repeat this process) will be attached to your post.
Try it with one image and choose the "Preview" button before you "Submit" to see how it looks.

Untitled.png (213.91 KiB) Viewed 1385 times

When you are happy with that, at the point where you have added the file, choose "Place Inline" to drop the photo into the middle of your text, but CAUTION: make sure that you have selected the position in the text BEFORE you choose "Place Inline".

Some bbs place a restriction on file size. If you get knocked back trying to upload a large image, either edit the image ("resize" in MSPaint) or use a freeware like "VSO Image Resizer".

I hope this helps.
Cheers, Chris
P.S. I posted the second image just to show you what an attached-but-not-inline image looks like! C.

[Zoso]

Hi Chris, thanks very much for the help!!

I had run into the size limit issue, but doing this from a phone I hadn’t figured out how to resize without a rig marole..

Yeah I know, you may have seen some other repairs I’ve done to my car too! I only ever use Flickr for things I post on forums so I’m not worried about any security issues, the worst that can happen is that someone will see something irrelevant.. Having looked through those images you may have seen some other examples of the projects that I just get on with without much planning! I’ve never repaired a totally written off car before, nor made a Gibson Les Paul replica, but now I have! My approach is to just get stuck in and as long as you walk away with all your fingers and toes it’s a success! Starting small is indeed probably good advice for a lot of folk, but I can’t be arsed with wasting my momentum on a practice run! Sorry, I’m waffling now..

The other forums actually show the pictures in the post when you add the link, but for some reason this one doesn’t.. Thanks for doing that pic for me, much appreciated. I’ll try to suss it out soon!

Thanks again for the tips!!

[Mountain]

Regarding track, I have found that if using code 100 where one can freely mix flexible and sectional track, that using sectional trach for any of the sharper curves such as 1st or 2nd radius will kep the curve better at the rail joints as flexible track tries to push itself outwards and can cause de-railments on sharp curves, and using sectional track should one need to use sharp curves avoids this issue.
Using flexible track is a great money saver as it is usually far cheaper than buying sectional track. Also provides lovely flowing curves where needed and avoids the "Rigid" look.

If using an oval on a 8x4 or a 6x4 board (I understand you are not but I will add this anyway as it might be useful even if to someone else, staggering the oval so it does not remain parallel to the board or adding a small curve with flexible track rather than a dead straight parallel look with the edge of the board is enough to decieve the eye from thinking "Trainset". Another tip is to run a track right to the edge of the board to make it look like the railway goes elsewhere. Obviously one needs to ensure this track is not in use. If one wants one can make it look like an old line that has been closed ad converted into a siding by placing a few sleepers over it? (Make sure these sleepers will prevent ones trains from heading over the edge of ones board!) But doing something like this makes ones layout seem to look muchlarger than it is and gives the feeling that the "Rest of the railway network" is out there somewhere.
I hope these tips help either you, or someone else. (Whoever finds them useful!)