Hornby/Peco setrack

[barney121e]

Hi

I have read somewhere that Peco 2nd radius curves are 3rd radius curves in Hornby. Can anyone confirm if that is correct?

[Bigmet]

It's possible a retailer has made an error in a description, or an enthusiast has got it all wrong. But in currently produced set track for OO, 2nd radius is the same from Hornby, Peco and Bachmann, 438 mm radius to track centreline. Likewise for 3rd radius, 505mm radius, consistent across all three brands.

Where it all goes to pieces is if other makes of set track for HO are added to the mix. There's track from Lima for example still kicking around second hand, not a clue what their standard radii and lengths were.

[Mountain]

Peco second radius are the same as Hornby second radius curves and so are their first radius and third radius etc.

Peco and Hornby track is good. In the past Peco had a very clear advantage but around 15 years ago Hornby made such improvements to their track that there is not a lot between them when we are talking about their 00 gauge sectional track (Code 100).

Some say that Peco is better but I really have not found a difference as one has to go for the Peco streamine flexible track with electroftrog points to see any improvement.

Code 100 refers to the rail height and code 100 (Which is what Hornby have in their sets) one can run most 00 gauge locos on from old Triang to modern Hornby, Bachmann and others.
Reduce the railheight and use code 75 and one then limits oneself to what one can run. Code 75 is a more realistic rail height for steam days though in modern times some heavy duty main lines like the ones used to carry the heavy iron ore trains into Port Talbot in Wales and code 100 looks about right. (One can see the incredible height difference if one looks at the main running lines in that area compared to the sidings).
As model track goes though, it all depends on what you are looking for. Greater realism or the ability to run almost anything that one comes across in 00 and H0 forms. Code 100 will do this though some more refined turnouts may need their frogs gently opened up for a few of the deeper flanged Triang to run. (Not all Triang had deep flanges. Only their earlier models. As a guide, Lima had fairly deep flanges so need to use code 100.Most modellers in 00 use code 100).

Also to note. Using first radius curves is less of a problem if one has a double track loop style layout because the few models that don't like it can run on the second radius outer track.
Around 25 to 30 years ago it was rare to find a 00 gauge model that was not able to run on first radius curves as even larger models were made by design to do this. Is only in recent years that the demands for more precision has given the excuse to make models that don't need to turn too sharply. If one wanted a realistic sharp curve an average steam loco in 00 gauge would need a good 32 feet to turn in if one wanted scale accuracy and the gauge would need to be widened from 16.5mm to 18.83mm as 00 gauge width is in itself quite a compromize.

Useful note when it comes to track. One can mix flexible track with sectional track if one desires as long as the rail height is the same (E.g. code 100). One can actually mix code 100 with code 75 by either buying special converter tracks or special converter railjoiners as well but it is easier to keep to the same railheight out of convenience.

[Bufferstop]

When it comes to wheels there's old Triang and then there's really old Triang. Really old Triang bumps on the chairs and doesn't like going through points with check rails, the flanges were just too thick. The earliest Triang points had no frogs, the moving rails pivoted far enough to line up with the V rails.

[Flashbang]

Hi
I have read somewhere that Peco 2nd radius curves are 3rd radius curves in Hornby. Can anyone confirm if that is correct?

Totally untrue! Peco Setrack sections and radius are identical to Hornby track sections!

[barney121e]

Thanks all. Thought it didnt sound right but thought i would double check.

[pete12345]

Useful note when it comes to track. One can mix flexible track with sectional track if one desires as long as the rail height is the same (E.g. code 100). One can actually mix code 100 with code 75 by either buying special converter tracks or special converter railjoiners as well but it is easier to keep to the same railheight out of convenience.

For joining the two, the best method I've seen entails filing down the underside of the code 100 rail, such that it's the same height as code 75. Solder code 75 rail joiners to it, and the code 75 rail will then connect and be the correct height for a smooth transition.

The Setrack Y-point is a very useful item- basically the medium-radius Y which is missing from the streamline range. If only there was a live frog version!

[Mountain]

Useful note when it comes to track. One can mix flexible track with sectional track if one desires as long as the rail height is the same (E.g. code 100). One can actually mix code 100 with code 75 by either buying special converter tracks or special converter railjoiners as well but it is easier to keep to the same railheight out of convenience.

For joining the two, the best method I've seen entails filing down the underside of the code 100 rail, such that it's the same height as code 75. Solder code 75 rail joiners to it, and the code 75 rail will then connect and be the correct height for a smooth transition.

The Setrack Y-point is a very useful item- basically the medium-radius Y which is missing from the streamline range. If only there was a live frog version!

In theory it should not be that difficult to convert an insulated frog point to an electro frog point if one is handy with a soldering iron and has some spare offcuts of rail along with some PCB if needed. Basically (In theory) one can file or grind down the frog and replace it with rail and the easiest way is to replace the V of the frog with solder.... Though one needs to remove the plastic bit first as melting plastic and hot solder do not mix! (Been there, done that!)
In theory though if one can melt solder into where the V part of the two rails meet instead of plastic it should do the job. I have never tried it myself though as when I started messing about with making points I either built my own from scratch or I re-sleepered old set track Peco points with PCB home cut sleepers so I left them in insulfrog form. (I do not mind insulfrog as long as trains run ok over them at modest speed without stalling then I am happy enough to leave them as they are).

But yes. Those Y points I have used in the past and have been useful. On past layouts I had a mix between settrack and streamline pointwork as I saw what fit my trackplan the best and used it. I did not bother with electrofrog points myself back then though I did have one large radius streamline electrofrog point where the last owner (I bought it secondhand) had bent the point into a gentle curve. I bent it a little more and it was just the right radius for the use I needed to fit my trackplan! I never knew Peco points could be carefully adjusted to alter their radius like this. I only discovered it when I bought that one secondhand and it matched no known radius that I could find. I would not bend settrack or short radius streamline points though. Only the large radius as these will take the adjustment better due to their length.

[pete12345]

In theory it should not be that difficult to convert an insulated frog point to an electro frog point if one is handy with a soldering iron and has some spare offcuts of rail along with some PCB if needed. Basically (In theory) one can file or grind down the frog and replace it with rail and the easiest way is to replace the V of the frog with solder.... Though one needs to remove the plastic bit first as melting plastic and hot solder do not mix! (Been there, done that!)
In theory though if one can melt solder into where the V part of the two rails meet instead of plastic it should do the job. I have never tried it myself though as when I started messing about with making points I either built my own from scratch or I re-sleepered old set track Peco points with PCB home cut sleepers so I left them in insulfrog form. (I do not mind insulfrog as long as trains run ok over them at modest speed without stalling then I am happy enough to leave them as they are).

But yes. Those Y points I have used in the past and have been useful. On past layouts I had a mix between settrack and streamline pointwork as I saw what fit my trackplan the best and used it. I did not bother with electrofrog points myself back then though I did have one large radius streamline electrofrog point where the last owner (I bought it secondhand) had bent the point into a gentle curve. I bent it a little more and it was just the right radius for the use I needed to fit my trackplan! I never knew Peco points could be carefully adjusted to alter their radius like this. I only discovered it when I bought that one secondhand and it matched no known radius that I could find. I would not bend settrack or short radius streamline points though. Only the large radius as these will take the adjustment better due to their length.

I've converted a long crossing like this- I found that in this case, replacing the plastic frog point was simpler by using a piece of rail filed into an arrow shape and used upside down. The obtuse-angle crossings were simple enough with a piece of rail and a file to allow it to be bent. The tiny rail points- not so easy! The Setrack Y point is next on the list.

I also had an old medium radius right point which wasn't quite the right shape for my junction. So I bent it outwards very slightly, such that the straight road took a gentle curve to the left, giving an asymmetric Y-point which works nicely!

[End2end]

I can only add, the only settrack pieces which ARE NOT the same from Hornby and Peco are crossovers.
Hornby has both a left hand and right hand version.
Hornby R614 - Left hand / R615 Right hand

Peco do different types although they all seem to be generic in that, none are labelled as left or right.
https://peco-uk.com/pages/search-result ... =crossover

All my track is Peco settrack EXCEPT for my 2 crossovers which had to be Hornby ones to fit settrack. (1 left, 1 right)

This is the crossover I had to replace with the Hornby versions - Peco Short6 SL-E1493 Crossing, Short
https://peco-uk.com/products/crossing-short6
Hope it helps.
Thanks
End2end

[Flashbang]

The two links you have provided are to all Peco Streamline items. They are prefixed SL-xx
Peco Setrack is prefixed ST-xx
Streamline is different from Hornby or Peco Setrack.
The Peco Setrack diamond crossing is item ST-250 It is not handed as it fits either way.

[End2end]

Apologies, It's been quite a while since I laid my track.
Yes it is indeed the Peco ST-250 That I had to replace with Hornby crossovers.

Sorry for the confusion.
Thanks
End2end

[b308]

Lima's appear to be 360mm (14") and 438mm (17"), Mountain. A quick search online shows all the "foreign" makes and their radii. It used to be that the manufacturers used to stamp the radius on the underside but looking at a Peco 9" set track curve I have they don't any longer which is rather a shame. Didn't Playcraft used to do a 12" radius curve, ideal for all those smaller CJ Freezer track plans?!

[Mountain]

Towards the last days of Lima, they came out with a really good new track system in nickel silver but I never saw it available in any model railway shops in the UK. It really looked great in the Lima catalogue and had the ability to make intricate point and crossing formations which are not possible to do with Peco or other makes without disecting their points and crossings to make them fit. Limas new track was really revolutionary but I never once saw it available in real life. Was it in production in Italy for Italian modellers?