Derry's Yard - A Set-Track shunting loop Project

[Lofty]

One last shot of the Sentinel.

Such a short fleeting visit, it’s a nice looking loco, but Marilyn is still the queen of your fleet.

[Dad-1]

Last evening I had this in the kitchen and used the Sentinel,
however I found it has an operating problem with Kadees. While it has enough
lateral axle movement for any radius curves it is so free moving that it has a
tendency to crab, taking the coupler off the track centre-line. The result is
difficulty in coupling up. A clean up has the J94 working perfectly again and
that was the original loco for this layout's use.

While at it I've found the nice hinged lid a pain. I was thinking it could easily be
converted to 'plug on' by removing the hinge and adding metal pins to engage in
holes. Then I was looking at the wasted space - How about adding another shunting
layout into the lid, no problem to design something that wouldn't foul the existing
layout ????. Next thought make it as an extension and/or stand alone ???

Geoff T.

[Bigmet]

Last evening I had this in the kitchen and used the Sentinel, however I found it has an operating problem with Kadees. While it has enough lateral axle movement for any radius curves it is so free moving that it has a tendency to crab, taking the coupler off the track centre-line. The result is difficulty in coupling up...

If you feel so inclined, experimenting with increasing back to back on the end wheelsets and/or reducing sideplay of these wheelsets should enable centering of the coupler to be better controlled. As the J94 works, what is the wheelbase compared to the Sentinel? If they are much alike it should be possible to adjust the Sentinel to achieve matching performance.

[Lofty]

Next thought make it as an extension and/or stand alone ???

I would love to help you, but I have more indecision than I can handle trying to work out where I am heading.

[Dad-1]

Hi Bigmet,

Not as simple as that - so many of my problems on this are with making from
inherited Set-Track points. If I increase the B2B it will clout the plastic common
crossing, worn/used old set-track points would be happier with 14.35 B2B.

Because this is a loop it works the Kadees at both ends. I'm pondering a fixed bar
at each end that prevents the wheel sets from moving much sideways. Allowing
deflection of the centre set to allow it to navigate the sharp turns of the points.

This is only a fun driving set up and I've more than enough traction that may work.
Not used my Bachmann 08 for years, I remember fitting a decoder, think it's a split
chassis version, as are in all probability, my 03 & 04, again not used for ages. Perhaps
time to dig them out.

Geoff T.

[Bigmet]

Go with the Bach 08 I'd suggest, not split chassis and has a sprung centre axle, very sweet runners. Even the new Bach 03 isn't a surefire runner, it may have regular steel axle wheelsets, but the flycranks are not on a single axle, but each is on a stub axle, and I have seen two of these jammed up with bent rods as a result.

[luckymucklebackit]

Hi Geoff, I would recommend the Heljan 05, I find it a pretty much go anywhere loco which has no problems with dead frogs.

Jim

[Lofty]

I would recommend the Heljan 05

Hi Jim, I think that my Heljan 05 is the best running shunter that I own, but I do recall that Geoff has one and it’s a bit of a dog.

[Dad-1]

Thanks for the suggestions Guys.

I've been rather busy and not ventured into the loft to get the Bachmann
shunters out.
My experience with the Heljan 05 of my buddy Derek MAY have had something to do with the
original supplier who had fitted the decoder. I don't know where he bought it, but when the
decoder burnt out in the first 3 feet of travel he should have sent it back. I'm also unaware
of how long he'd had it before trying to run, it could have been a couple of months.
Everything burnt out - decoder and decoder socket and the motor.
It was impossible at the time to get a replacement motor, which being an odd type couldn't
be substituted with any other. It's a longish cylindrical motor with a worm drive. It's held
in place by two rubber rings, not offering a fixed stop, but able to float back & forth. Where
the motor had drifted back it's terminals touched the metal end of the enclosing trough
where there was NO insulation. Did it once have end insulation that fell out when the supplier
fitted a decoder ?? I don't know but when re-built by me it was most certainly well insulated.
The other oddity was the strange wiring colours used by Heljan, it has the hard wired in decoder
wires changing colours at interfaces to original Heljan wires. I had to give him a wiring chart !!
Everything including lights worked correctly in the end (after the 2 year ? motor wait).
The only wire colours I can now recall are the motor where both were white.

Anyway now the frog juicers have been removed I will try a couple of 0-4-0's, not expecting
total success, but you never know. My Andrew Barclay 'Katie' manages to cross all 3 points on
St Oval ......

Geoff T.

[Dad-1]

For a simple reasons of being too lazy I've not done the extensive testing I planned,
Not exactly planned, but thought about.
Here are the locos tested, just one 0-4-0.



The unexpected was that there is no way I can run the split chassis Bachmann class 04
on any layout with above the sleepers Kadee magnets. The first problem is that the keeper
plate, the plastic bottom, fouls on the magnets and simply stops the locomotive passing
over.



In addition converting to Kadees would be messy as this doesn't have NEM pockets and the
couplers are a wider type held in by a screw that also holds the keeper plate.

As expected the Bachmann 08 made easy work of it although the NEM No.18 Kadees are too
short and would need replacing by No.19's. The sprung buffers touched heavily, but didn't
cause a derailment.

The 0-4-0 test was surprising in that the Peckett W4 wasn't stalling, but I'd not want to use
regularly on this layout as the point's common crossing voids has one passing wheel dropping
in and rocking the small loco, something that Kadees wouldn't like.

I don't know if I mentioned earlier in this thread, but to get a smooth wagon ride I add a false
bottom to the point voids with some thin plastic card. This is matched to the Hornby replacement
wheel set flanges, meaning that the flange runs along the bottom of the flangeway.
Remember this is a specific layout with dedicated stock and the Hornby J94 was always intended
to be the primary motive power - but I do like options !!

Geoff T.

[Dad-1]

Last evening I had an extended running session.
Everything with the exception of one Kadee operation
worked perfectly not a single stall even at super low speeds.
I'm amazed at how many running problems the Frog-Juicers gave.

Here set-up in the kitchen.



You can see why I don't like the hinged lid, it gets in the way and is awkward.
However if with a lift off arrangement the space could be another small layout.
All I have to do is make certain nothing fouls the existing scenery, mostly the
yard lamps.

My trusty Hornby J94. May paint the wall base today and finish ballasting this end.



2 layouts standing on end in such a small space - Worth trying ????

Geoff T

[Phred]

Dad-1 wrote:
2 layouts standing on end in such a small space - Worth trying ????

Absolutely!!

[GeraldH]

The unexpected was that there is no way I can run the split chassis Bachmann class 04
on any layout with above the sleepers Kadee magnets. The first problem is that the keeper
plate, the plastic bottom, fouls on the magnets and simply stops the locomotive passing
over.

You could chop the bulge off leaving the gears exposed. I had to do this with my Hornby Toby/Bill/Ben based locos as the bulge was significantly reducing traction over uncoupling ramps. I've never had any issues with crud getting into the gears. In the olden days most of our locos had the gears exposed .

[Dad-1]

Hi GeraldH,

"In the olden days most of our locos had the gears exposed"
It makes you wonder how they were so reliable, running tracks on carpet and all that !!
All, well if not all, but many of the problems come from the ever finer detail of new models.

Due to having a rest from 'doing the bathroom' combined with recent weather I've tried a few
different locos and more than expected failed to clear the magnets. They have been so far :-

Bachmann split chassis 04 - Gear bulge
Kernow's GWR 1361 class - Brake rodding
Hatton's Andrew Barklay 'Katie' - Gear bulge & brake rodding

I was wondering if the sleepers of Set-track are slightly thicker than flexi ? Might try the Vernier
on some to check, only 10 thou or so could make the difference.
As I have grass growing in my tracks I wouldn't want to run with an open gear. On the Hornby J94
I've stuck a piece of Tamiya masking tape over the open gear void, lasting well & keeping sealed.

Hornby Sentinels 4 & 6, plus Pecketts 4 & 6 no problem, Bachmann 57's no problems although I've
not tried all 4.

Nice to sit in the kitchen on an awful wet & windy day just playing trains !!

Geoff T

[Dad-1]

Didn't quite know where to add this.
My last video is in St Oval thread where I mention my liking of small locomotives.
However this video has no other connection, there is a reference to "Lydd Top Sidings"
in this for which I have not started a thread. The idea is mentioned in our design threads,
but as the top protective lid of Derry's Yard is the basis of the planned new layout I thought
this may be the best place.

https://youtu.be/my_uUpM9E_s

Small loco favourite, tends to be the Ruston which was out 'at work' when I did this !!

Geoff T.