00 Points choice..?

[will100]

Hi All,

Newbie here

A few years ago I helped a friends lad set up a simple 00 DCC system and he used Peco insulfrog small radius points for most of the layout but he soon found they gave lots of problems with the locos stopping or the larger wheeled locos shorting things out, even worse when he applied some gravel with the pva method.

I'm doing my own 8x4 00 layout now and going to use electrofrogs, but can remember at the time reading some comment about always using the large radius points as they present a more realistic effect.

Though I'm not looking for total authenticity, wonder how true that is and are medium and small radius best avoided all together ?

Seems Peco also do a few other types of Crossings and a Double Slip but they are only available as insulfrog ; assume they will exhibit the same problems as the standard insulfrog points and should be avoided ?

thanks.

[TimberSurf]

Hi and welcome aboard

......comment about always using the large radius points as they present a more realistic effect.

Reality has to be condensed on a model, so with a 8x4 in mind, limited space decrees shorter points. Its up to you, but when you do a track plan, long points will erode the space you have, i.e. shorter points, more running space.

Seems Peco also do a few other types of Crossings and a Double Slip but they are only available as insulfrog ; assume they will exhibit the same problems as the standard insulfrog points and should be avoided ?.

Indeed they will give issues like the points, if you really want them, consider Code 75 as they are all available in live frog.

Just for future reference, look around my website, lots especially for newbies!

[Mountain]

Real railways use large radius points for their main running lines, and medium to short radius points in their branch lines and their sidings. The short radius points have low speed restrictions to them and the part radius points have higher speed restrictions, all depending on the direction of travel and the route set of the point.
Even mainlines had short radius points on the approaches to city stations where space limitations meant that many routes would accumulate in one area. Such stations, even if passing straight through will need to be passed through slowly due to this.
Another aspect which can be modelled is rail profile, especially if one is modelling diesel days rather then steam days is to follow the prototype and use high profile rails on main running lines and low profile rails for sidings and branch lines. I have to be honest and say that while most modellers go out of their way to adapt low profile rails, few will ever mix them like the prototype railways do. The real railways actually have six or seven rail profiles. The highest rail heights I have seen are on the South Wales main line from Margam (Near Port Talbot) heading east. This is due to the rails needing to cope with the heavy iron ore trains, which at one time for many years was Britain's heaviest freight.
Another common feature I've rarely seen modelled apart from catch and trap points, headshunt etc, are new rails left in the four foot ready for replacing the old rails, (Which could be in with for many months waiting for the time slot available to change them) and old rails which would more likely be positioned by the sides of the track. (A PW worker can advise more about this feature). It is quite common to see miles of rails in the four foot (The space in between the track where the sleepers are) all waiting to be changed. These will be the continuous welded lengths, though I have seen the sectional lengths in positions like this as well, though these will likely be in a slight arrow formation.

At the end of the day, like the prototype, you can only use what fits in the location you have available, so if you only have room for small radius pointwork, useing this will follow prototype practice as even real railways are not going to squash in a large radius point if it means sacrificing space elsewhere (E.g. by needing to use sharper curves after it) to do it.

[will100]

Thanks both,

As said, seems I need to do a lot more detailed layout planning !

Just printed out all the Pecos points plans as find baseboard planning easier than Scarm, though expect I will get used to it with practice.

Thanks for the heads up on the Crossings being available in code 75 Elecrofrog, missed that one.

Just a quick question , think its ok as it does not seem like the site has them as sponsors, but would be interested to know who are the good and fast mail order suppliers of 00 track etc.

cheers

[Mike Parkes]

Trackshack are usually very quick on despatch and prices are quite good - postage varies but does show up in the basket before you place your order (unlike some other suppliers who consequently never get an order from me).
https://www.track-shack.com/
A code 75 live frog double slip is £37 from them, £40 on its own posted.
A lot of people use Hattons but I find it often takes a week or more for a parcel from them to find its way across the Pennines
The double slip is also £37 from them and on its own would be £39 posted http://www.hattons.co.uk/

[will100]

Trackshack are usually very quick on despatch and prices are quite good - postage varies but does show up in the basket before you place your order (unlike some other suppliers who consequently never get an order from me).
https://www.track-shack.com/
A code 75 live frog double slip is £37 from them, £40 on its own posted.
A lot of people use Hattons but I find it often takes a week or more for a parcel from them to find its way across the Pennines
The double slip is also £37 from them and on its own would be £39 posted http://www.hattons.co.uk/

Hi,

Actually just ordered some items from Hattons yesterday, a few hours before your reply.

The weight meant I had to use their £4 delivery charge but it was a next day service and everything has arrived and well packed .

Will bookmark track-shack, always good to know of alternatives.

thanks.

[BobDM]

This is just the question I was going to ask!

I have got a load of SetTrack insulfrog points and crossovers which I was going to use and cost me a lot of money. Black mark for Peco for continuing to produce and actively market a trash product. Any ideas what I can do with them?

As most of my track is Code 100 I will have to fit connectors. Would it be best to use Code 75 for all trackwork in goods yards and MPDs or will I be all right mixing them? I am using DC control.

The cost of these electrofrog points is very high. Is it worth going to a specialist point maker, I assume it isn't but you never know.

Regarding low cost suppliers I have often found Rails of Sheffield are cheaper than Hattons.

[Mountain]

Though I may be straying into a concept which may seem difficult...
Can you solder? How about the idea to build your own pointwork? I'm not saying that you can or can't do it straight away. What I am saying is that if you teach yourself the basic principles of what works and what does not, it maybe time consuming, but it is usually very cheap to build them.
I'm only suggesting this as an option. You dont have to go down this route. My points are rather crude, but I was surprised when I found out that I can build them myself and after various adjustments, I can run waggons through them with no difficulty. Yes, I could do with wiring the layout soon. Initial tests do work with trains tunning through them...

I suggested the idea to Atso who is an N gauge modeller and I have been really impressed with the results, so I thought it is an abt suggestion to put here as well.

[southernick]

Another common feature I've rarely seen modelled apart from catch and trap points, headshunt etc, are new rails left in the four foot ready for replacing the old rails, (Which could be in with for many months waiting for the time slot available to change them) and old rails which would more likely be positioned by the sides of the track. (A PW worker can advise more about this feature). It is quite common to see miles of rails in the four foot (The space in between the track where the sleepers are) all waiting to be changed. These will be the continuous welded lengths, though I have seen the sectional lengths in positions like this as well, though these will likely be in a slight arrow formation.

You've answered a question I have had since seeing these rails in the centre of the track. I asked the staff on the gates at St Pancras and they didn't have a clue, cheers

[Mountain]

I had the advantage that I was a train guard (Conductor) and I met staff from various companies at all levels from managers to cleaners so by asking questions and chatting I was able to learn a lot.

[GeraldH]

... I have got a load of SetTrack insulfrog points and crossovers which I was going to use and cost me a lot of money. Black mark for Peco for continuing to produce and actively market a trash product. Any ideas what I can do with them?...

SetTrack insulfrog points are obviously not as good as Electrofrog Streamline points, but they still have their uses. Setrack points are great space savers and can be mixed with Streamline points to give you more options. My layout is a case in point. Insulfrog points are also simpler to install in electrical terms, which is a great benefit for new railway modellers and those who just want simplicity. I've been using SetTrack Insulfrog points for decades and as long as they are laid prefectly flat, your locos have reasonably good pickups and you are not using very short wheelbase 0-4-0's they are fine. There's also a good second hand for them if you have a surplus .

[pete12345]

I'll chime in with the usual "don't build an 8x4" post.

If the layout is intended to be portable, an 8x4 slab is simply too heavy and unwieldy. For a permanent layout, once you consider the minimum 10x8 space you need (the layout plus access to three sides) the use of space is poor.

Consider instead the space you have available and design a layout to fit. Don't just get a slab of wood of an unsuitable size and figure out where to put it.

Lots of people build an 8x4 as their first layout, but far fewer build another one.

[brober]

What an opportune thread! Can somebody answer me two questions please. What is the difference between a slip, crossover and turnout. And can I fit a code 75 Electrofrog crossover into Streanlime Code 100 track without any problems (or additional bits)?

Bruce R

[TimberSurf]

Turnout or point as we call it in the UK, allows a train to diverge from straight to a alternate route (siding)
A crossover is just that, two tracks cross each other. Like a road crossroads but you cant turn left or right (only straight on from the direction you came)
A single slip is a crossover that is allows turning to the left (or right) only, but only from one side
A double slip is a crossover that allows turning to left or right, but only from one side dictated by the entry side. i.e you don't have 3 options, only two, but from each end.
All explained nicely with diagrams on DCCwiki
Code 75 and 100 can be mixed, but the 75 will need to be packed up under the sleepers so tops of rails are equal, not sure about fishplates, you may need special ones (others will chip in and answer this)

[Mountain]

The difference between code 75 and code 100 is mainly in the height of the rails. (Code 75 being more finescale track is usually a little thinner but we shall ignore this as the gauge width is the same).
Code 100 rail is what Hornby use in their train sets, so if one buys 00 sectional track or 00 flexible track the rail heights will be the same as long as they are both code 100. Code 75 rails have a lower depth to them so they look more realistic for modelling the steam days or modelling the branch lines in diesel days. (In the UK today, some areas have much heavier profile rails to cope with the much heavier wagon tonnages carried so using code 100 for a few of these main lines actually looks the part if you want to model a modern image scene, but you need to get concrete sleepers to look the part.
Generally speaking, code 100 is the universal adopted standard for 00 gauge in Britain because it is fully compatible with trainsets and has been sold for years. Some older models have deeper wheel flanges which can't run on code 75 track so code 100 still remains popular despite the rail height being too deep for many modellers, but there again, 00 gauge width is a bit of a compromise also being 16.5mm where scaling down it should actually be 18.83mm (Which modellers term as P4, and also the older (And more popular then P4) EM gauge which was dead on 18mm was also an attempt to get the gauge width in the right direction).

Yes, 00 gauge is a compromise and so is code 100, but its here to stay as we're modellers love it!

You can indeed mix code 100 and code 75 but you either need to buy special converter rails, or you solder the two together and pack up card or similar under th e sleepers under the code 75 track where it joins the code 100 track.