Operating 'Minories' and Improvements

[pete12345]

C J Freezer's 'Minories' layout is one of the classics, and is an interesting alternative to the ubiquitous BLT. A very compact layout, yet double track main-line operation is allowed for with an intensive service.


One rather obvious feature, or lack of it, is the run-round loop. Without it, presumably you'd need a station pilot locomotive to release arriving locos, or else attach a fresh train engine to the rear for the return journey. It also makes shunting the goods/parcels kickback siding a challenge. Outbound trains would have to be drawn back into the bay platform by the station pilot, which would remain trapped there until the train engine hauled it away. That would make an interesting operating feature, but how prototypical is this? Would operation be improved by providing a run-round loop at the lower platform? Then a 'local' could sort itself out by arriving at the lower platform. Without a runround, you'd have quite an operating challenge if multiple trains were arriving and departing in quick succession.

Secondly, there is no turntable. So with tender locos, you'd have to either run them tender-first in one direction, or presume a remote depot 'off-stage'. They'd run light-engine to this imagined depot, be turned and watered, before returning to haul their next train. Would it be better to provide a turntable somewhere on the plan (a 60ft one if you could find it?) so that locos can be turned on-stage?

[Ex-Pat]

Would it be better to provide a turntable somewhere on the plan (a 60ft one if you could find it?) so that locos can be turned on-stage?

Here's one: http://midrailcentre.com/4mm-scale-00-em-p4#anchor

[Bufferstop]

I would rather, than waste space with a run round loop, install a Moor Street style traverser. It had three pairs of rails, the centre pair being used to transfer a loco from one platform road to the other, the platforms being hollow to accommodate one pair of rails. As soon as the adjacent road is free the arriving loco pulls forward, runs round via the empty road, then takes it's place at the front of the train.
CJF returned to the theme a couple of times, one of his variations introduced a loco spur at the front. I think he moved the parcels platform to the rear alongside the main platform, and put the spur in at front right, with a small coal stage and water crane. A spare loco waiting there to take out the next train and allow the loco that brought it in to move to the spur. Tank engines are the answer to finding space for a turntable. Tender engines taking a trip to the depot to be turned and serviced, if the crew were lucky, otherwise they had to run tender first and put up with the coal dust!

[pete12345]

This is the sort of thing I was thinking of:


So platforms 1 and 2 remain as dead-ends, leaving the station pilot to handle arriving trains. Meanwhile platform 3 gains a runround, which allows easier shunting of the goods facility and allowing shorter trains to sort themselves out. By widening the board at the left side and positioning the platforms on an angle, the loco spur could be extended behind platform 1, with a turntable in the top left corner. Alternatively you could angle it the other way- with a turntable on the right hand side. That's if a turntable would have been provided at all. Pictures are a poor judge of how common tender-first running was (photographers just didn't take the shot) so is it likely that the loco would simply start out running astern, until the train reached a convenient turning point?

[Emettman]

Minories was designed as a compact portable layout for tank engines, from the older design books explaining CJF's thinking and yes, the loco spur was key, intended either for a station pilot to move the rake of coaches to their departure platform, releasing the train loco, or each loco took it's turn waiting for the next train to take out, the released loco then taking up occupation in the now empty loco spur.
This allows for working longer trains than with a run-round loop in the same space, though a loco traverser would avoid that.

As originally drawn the platforms weren't long enough to provide a load justifying tender engine haulage, though I have seen later variations with one long and two suburban platforms (allowing room for a station building) but even there the loco-servicing and turntable was "off stage"

Different ways of adding parcels and van traffic to the original have been drawn up, and built, but they all add width or length to the basic idea (7ft x1ft, plus fiddleyard)
More or longer platforms, run-rounds, a turntable, a general good yard... there are lots of ways to expand or develop the Minories idea, but beyond a certain point it's not Minories any more. (No, I'd not like to call borderline cases!)

One idea was to consider a linearly expanding layout by modules. Minories could be added to with an extra platform section, a loco servicing section, a junction to a separate goods yard...

Lots of variations and expansions can and have been done, but the original idea was simplicity with tank engines and short coaches.

Chris

[Bufferstop]

There's an inherent problem with run round loops in model stations, particularly terminal stations. You can apply "selective compression" to the station as a whole but the turnout and headshunt are fixed by the lemgth of the loco to be released and the length of the shortest believable turnout. A settrack point "looks wrong" and streamline short looks better but is still a bit sharp.

[luckymucklebackit]

The very first incarnation of Gateside was a modified Minories as shown below and I had a lot of fun operating it, I made a couple of changes however. I did away with the short loco spur and extended that track the full length so that this became the parcels platform. Where you have the parcels platform became a two track depot capable of holding six small locomotives. To avoid locomotives having to enter the platform line I added a headshunt for the depot which also acts as a carriage siding. With plenty of type 2 diesels and DMUs there was no need for a run round loop.

Minories_track_plan modified.jpg (48.77 KiB) Viewed 8485 times

Jim

[Bufferstop]

Jim your plan for Minories, and the period setting fits an idea I had (well nicked from I can't remember who), to model it at various stages in it's existence:-
First pre WW2, highly intensive commuter line with short trains and loads of small tanks;
Second the transition from green diesel to BR blue and grey:
Third semi dereliction at the end of BR's existence;
and finally privatised resurgence, the line at the back, part of an intensive metro system, the other platforms with current privatised DMUs and Emus. With it's roof revamped and a concourse with cafe and sales booths. I should have though of it twenty years or so back, doubt I'll have time to finish it if I started today!

[SRman]

I expanded on this plan for my old layout, including a crossover in the main platform roads for the run-round, and also a double slip at the other end to allow access to an engine shed and turntable.

Mine was also mirror-imaged but that did cause a minor operational problem with the parcels bay as that then required a double shunt to exit on the double track out of the terminus. I also applied the track and platforms as if it had been a through station where the lines beyond had been truncated (Beeching cuts, perhaps?). If I had ever wanted to take it to exhibitions, this end could have been reinstated to allow through running.

I have to say that it is a brilliant plan for operation, and lends itself to adaptations and variations. It also eliminates the reverse curves that make stock look ungainly as they traverse them.

[Emettman]

It also eliminates the reverse curves that make stock look ungainly as they traverse them.

Moving a little sideways to compact station throats, I conjured this while trying to answer a question about scissirs crossovers in OO



Slightly bent, but with advantages.

No reverse curves, a straight section at either end could have a point added for compact delivery of an extra platform line,
and one of the standard points could be replaced by a Y or its opposite handedness to quickly open up the width for a platform between the two tracks.

Chris,

[pete12345]

[

No reverse curves, a straight section at either end could have a point added for compact delivery of an extra platform line,
and one of the standard points could be replaced by a Y or its opposite handedness to quickly open up the width for a platform between the two tracks.

Or even, to do both in less space, replace one of the points with a double slip. Double track main line into three platforms in very little linear space and no reverse curves. You could do the same by putting a point next to the single slip, but it would be on the inside of the curved junction (which may suit better)

[Emettman]

Or even, to do both in less space, replace one of the points with a double slip. Double track main line into three platforms in very little linear space and no reverse curves. You could do the same by putting a point next to the single slip, but it would be on the inside of the curved junction (which may suit better)

Yes. A point and a double slip at one end would give double track into four platforms in shade over 2ft.
It was the singe slip with its diamond built in that makes this offset scissors work.
And the inside of the curve is just asking for the signalbox.

Chris

[SRman]

It also eliminates the reverse curves that make stock look ungainly as they traverse them.

Moving a little sideways to compact station throats, I conjured this while trying to answer a question about scissirs crossovers in OO



Slightly bent, but with advantages.

No reverse curves, a straight section at either end could have a point added for compact delivery of an extra platform line,
and one of the standard points could be replaced by a Y or its opposite handedness to quickly open up the width for a platform between the two tracks.

Chris,

That's brilliant, Chris. I wish I'd thought of that!

[pete12345]

I've been pondering this some more, and may have settled on a design that will work. I found this slight alteration to the basic plan on RMweb:


The addition of the direct link between platform 1 (at the bottom) and the incoming main line allows a very intensive service, with trains arriving as soon as a platform becomes vacant. In a later time period it could be left out of use and neglected, or it may also be useful for stabling a loco when the loco spur is full. I may add a runround crossover between platforms 2 and 3, so that shorter trains can deal with themselves. Likewise, I'm thinking of extending the loco spur into a fourth platform for peak time departures and for parcels traffic. There is a slight complication in that this platform can only access the outgoing line directly, so shunting by a pilot locomotive will be necessary to get carriages here ready for departures. But this will add to operating interest and make peak time operations a challenge.

The space available is an L-shape 2.6m x 0.9m, with room for a temporary hinged extension for a fiddle yard. I'm thinking four-coach trains plus locomotive at a maximum, with the station throat bent around the curve. There will be some room in the corner, but I'm thinking that should be reserved for scenic development.

[Dragonfly]

If you replace the duplicate loop to platform 1 with a pair of sidings accessible only from platform 1, and extend the loco spur into a Platform 4, you do have an amazing plan, in my opinion. I've seen this precisely done on a Stafford member's layout "Midchester City":



More photos: http://www.stroleycentral.co.uk/layoutm ... ercity.htm

(neither link is mine)

Yes, Platform 4 is only accessible from the departure line, but this allows for intricate stock movement from platform to platform, or from siding to platform... It's fun to operate, I've done so many times myself.