Hornby K type Pullman coaches

[GWR_fan]

Alerted by a friendly 'local' forum member, I took advantage of Hattons' special deal on these cars. A rake of cars will be heading downunder come tomorrow. I had not intended getting a set of coaches due the normal hefty retail pricing. The average price downunder from eBay sellers, both in the UK and Australia, is around $120.00. The cars from Hattons cost me under $61.00 each including postage. This is almost down to the price on secondhand Southern Region Pullmans.

Hattons are still showing plenty in stock, although the clearout pricing does not bode well for a further release in the near future.

[Hilux5972]

Nicely scored. There is another set of 5 due out this year, but you may be right. This may be all for a year or 2.

[Bigglesof266]

Nicely scored. There is another set of 5 due out this year, but you may be right. This may be all for a year or 2.

The fix Hornby are in, with obviously bags of stock of the existing ones which is no real surprise at an SRP of £49.99 -too rich for me, I wouldn't place take odds on those five new ones materialising into actually available any time soon unless they are already on the boat.

OTOH that long standing "want" finally metamorphosed into "buy" on the X5 rake at £33ea.

[GWR_fan]

From reading it seems the five cars slated for release later this year do not complement the existing release (later timeframe). Perhaps the current release are designed to accompany the yet to be released "Queen of Scots" train pack (pre-war).

[Bigmet]

Prompted by this thread I have ordered two more cars, (the third parlour and kitchen) to make up the 8 car standard formation of the QoS when introduced into service. Suppose I will have to order some suitable transfers to renumber the duplicated third kitchen, parlour and brake end. This will be the train for my LNER liveried C1 atlantic to haul, as this class were the regular allocation on this job; although as the pacifics and V2s increased in number these began to displace the atlantics by the end of the 1930s.

[Bigglesof266]

Lovely. I bought the brake end at the old price prior to ordering this lot Bigmet, so I'll have a second I have plans for too.

Who would you recommend for sourcing quality Pullman decals/transfers?

I'd like to modify one of the two No. 77's deleting the third assignation with 77 renumbering, installing curtains in lieu of blinds and replacing the Pullman crest so it fits into period topping or tailing my '61 Metro-Cammell rake. Maroon BG sorts the other end.

[Bigglesof266]

From reading it seems the five cars slated for release later this year do not complement the existing release (later timeframe).

That's make sense Tim given the period of majority interest is steam '48-68, so its a whole new RTR OOTB market to exploit. There was considerable disgruntlement on another forum re the Grouping period these were configured for. An example of can't please everyone all of the time?

As these currently are actually suits me fine though, as much as I also really like the nationalisation transition through early '50's BR era, I love the pre-war decade of the Grouping period. I feel pretty lucky to have 5 different carriage type Grouping config K Type Pullmans available to me in RTR OOTB, and even luckier to have had the opportunity to buy them now the price has ameliorated to affordable.

[Bigmet]

...Who would you recommend for sourcing quality Pullman decals/transfers? ...

It'll be HMRS or Fox I imagine. That's going to have to wait while some rather pressing personal affairs are dealt with. In any case I only do detail jobs like this in good summer daylight, because that eliminates the significant - and uncorrectable - vision defect that inconveniences me in poor light.

The post war set will be funded by selling most of the earlier BR period Hornby Pullmans which are near redundant now the all-steel K's are available. ER pretty much retained the all-steel cars built for the LNER's QoS service, the wooden cars were relative rarities in ER operations. Rather glad I only got around to modifying one of the 'aluminium sheet' sided wooden K cars to make it better represent an 'all-steel'.

[Bigglesof266]

Best wishes on the personal front P. Empathise with your need for good light for detail work. I'm finding the same these days attributable to a combination of age and health issue related causation.

Been doing some 1/48 aircraft modelling detail work this week, and find it difficult even in that scale unless in bright daylight and with near vision correction. Even the thought of 1/72 detail or PE scares me now!

Robbing Peter to pay Paul sounds a plan. From all accounts, these K's are nice kit.

[Bigmet]

Comfortably in the top group in terms of OO plastic bodied coach models. With a Bachmann C1 on the front in LNER livery, that's my historic 1920s express, and I reckon it the best looking passenger train on the layout. (It's going to be a mighty challenge to sort out a matching quality train of Howlden stock for the Rapido Stirling Single to haul; that'll be the historic express of about 1900.)

I only wish that Hornby or another mfr would have a go at a better selection of Gresley design gangwayed coaches, but this time with accurate bodies at an equivalent standard to these Pullmans. Then I could retire most of my rather scuzzy Kirk kit builds, which look very dowdy alongside the Bach and Hornby RTR coaches.

[Bigglesof266]

Yes, it's a shame about the turnunder, more frequently if errantly referred to as tumblehome? I've a reasonable selection of the detailed Gresleys in lined maroon and teak, and I always feel like Hornby cheated the LNER folk when viewed alongside my very fine selection of Maunsells. The maroon Gresley Buffet in particular has been a PITA for me with much of the many clear windowing small parts falling out over time such that a couple have been lost to either the carpet monster or Miele vacuum assault. So much for PRC QC. I wouldn't be happy if I'd paid full freight for them. Maybe that was why? Although no trouble with the Sleeper 1st, Firsts or Thirds, but then they don't have a myriad of tiny high windows. Don't see them re-run to be made available much, so presumably the Gresleys don't sell as well as they could or was hoped for for the obvious reason?

That Atlantic is just a beauty to behold. I so wish I could justify one in my budget this year or next, if only to ogle over in the cabinet with the eyes whilst soothing the soul with The Glenlivet.

[Bigmet]

Yes, it's a shame about the turnunder, more frequently if errantly referred to as tumblehome? I've a reasonable selection of the detailed Gresleys in lined maroon and teak, and I always feel like Hornby cheated the LNER folk when viewed alongside my very fine selection of Maunsells...

In fairness to Hornby, they are the most difficult to mould of the numerous types of gangwayed grouping era coaches, and they were also the first newly tooled coaches from Hornby in China, so at the start of their learning curve there.

The later non-gangwayed Gresley coaches ('suburbans') present exactly the same difficulties in the body side moulding and are emphatically right. So Hornby's technique with their manufacturing partners has clearly improved: thus the thought that a new selection of better selected subjects would be a winner. The end-vestibule stock of the 1930s was what went on longest in BR service and an FK, TK, BTK, and triplet restaurant set would be a logical adjunct to all those LNER and BR liveried pacific models out there.

[Bigglesof266]

In fairness to Hornby, they are the most difficult to mould of the numerous types of gangwayed grouping era coaches, and they were also the first newly tooled coaches from Hornby in China, so at the start of their learning curve there.

I wasn't sure, but thought either they or the first of the new detail lit Pullmans were. Before my time. The Hornby Collector's guide gives a time frame of 2004 for the first 61' 6" corridor coaches. Does that sound about right?

Although slide moulding has been used in the foundry industry since at least the sixties, DML (Dragon) were the first to innovate with the slide moulding process in plastic injection moulding, with utterly stunning results. DML is a Chinese model kit company leading the world insofar as I am concerned with a number of standards and QC that make them rival the Czech Republic's Eduard for first place in plastic kit injection kits. The technology is available now for injection moulded plastic in China if Hornby have the will & cash to implement it. Outsourcing is invariably a cost and control compromise unfortunately as most of us here have bemoaned at one time or another.

I would like to see Hornby rework those Gresleys, but pragmatism informs me placing odds on the return of the Messiah would have more chance of happening than that before I'm scattered to the wind.

The sixty four million dollar question for me is, when are Hornby going to do SR & BR (SR) Bulleids? Hmm? Given their current crisis, not likely if well overdue now. Undeniably welcome and fine in their time, those that Bachmann introduced in '93 are well past use by date in 2016 or the contemporary standard. Over that time frame we've all gone from the very expensive 486DX desktop to the era of the 5½" screen iPhone, Kindle and Android tablet where to add insult to injury you could buy all three of the latter and then come away with over $2k change in your pocket vs what the former would have cost in its day. I'm surmising Bachmann probably won't bite that bullet whilst they have the only game in town and can still get away with selling 1993 'technology' in 2016. But speaking as a potential customer who actually buys, it's time. SR is my main game, and in the seven plus years now since my return to model rail, I haven't yet bought and won't buy any of Bachmann's recessed window examples of what is undeniably the most singularly significant SR coach type from end of Grouping through early BR nationalisation era and beyond? Surely when they do they'll be the fastest seller since hot cross buns were conjured up?

[GWR_fan]

Keiron,
a few days ago my son received some Eduard detail parts from Europe and in the package was the latest Eduard catalogue. I thought that some rivet counter model railway people were anal, but it seems that the 1/48 and 1/72 aircraft modellers have won the award for being pedantic to the extreme. The Eduard catalogue is a litany of detail parts that make you really want to model highly detailed aircraft, but you wonder how so much detail could be added to a model.


As regards coaches from Bachmann, well the birdcage coaches show that imminent production is not high on their priority list. Bulleids no doubt would be much further down the track so to speak, perhaps another five or more years. Hornby are tied up with their Colletts and LSWR coach releases so I cannot see any prioritising there to get Bulleids in the market. The emphasis lately from Bachmann seems to be getting locomotives produced.

[Bigglesof266]

a few days ago my son received some Eduard detail parts from Europe and in the package was the latest Eduard catalogue. I thought that some rivet counter model railway people were anal, but it seems that the 1/48 and 1/72 aircraft modellers have won the award for being pedantic to the extreme. The Eduard catalogue is a litany of detail parts that make you really want to model highly detailed aircraft, but you wonder how so much detail could be added to a model.

Eduard have established a huge market in very high profit margin value adding photo etch marketed to each segment. Zoom, Parts 1 & II, or Big Ed. Their marketing is fantastic, but so is their product. A level of additional detail to suit everyone. I don't buy a lot of it preferring my kits to have it included, Eduard Profipacks and Dragon's Smart Kits, thus being very selective as well as prepared to pay the modest 30% to 50% premium extra for it saving a small fortune on the 200% extra if visiting their with a basic kit buying individual masks, decals, PE etc. But there's a huge market out their prepared to pay to build the Full Monty including resin. If you want to see what can be done with slide moulding and contemporary moulds, have a look at Zvezda's current releases coming out of Russia. The moulded in accuracy and detail in their 1/144 scale airliners and now WW II 1/48 fighters (e.g. Bf 109F-2, Bf 109F-4, Yak-3, La-5FN, La-5, Su-2 and latest the utterly magnificent Pe-2, there's simply no excuse for Airfix, Bachmann or Hornby. Admittedly, Zvezda do need to lift their game regarding decals and transparencies in said kits, and I can see that coming soon. But at their current pricing affording effectively inclusive aftermarket replacement if desired for what other kits retail at, it's moot.

As to the air and armour modeller. More than should be are what you'd call the pedantic extreme or anal, but also many of us aren't. But most of the latter in which I include myself just know not only what's possible today, but pretty much de rigueur in the contemporary plastic kit world for a reasonable price. When you see the detail of a 1/72 scale aircraft model today as you have, and comprehend what's possible with current technology scanning and moulding, it makes obvious how backward OO guage model railroad RTR is n comparison and how manufacturers really are 'having a laff' on us.

That said, I do realise our toys are not static models, and I do realise we in OO gauge generally are price point sensitive in comparison with the EU HO or N gauge market.

But even so, contemporary standard slide moulding as in a 'design clever' approach could take care of issues associated with the former, and as for the latter, well I just don't buy it. When you see what's being turned out for the price in injection moulded kits, Hornby (& Bachmann as it appears in 2016) have a very very difficult time trying to justify to me why on God's dear earth in 2016 I should pay £50 for a Hornby carriage, £25 for a Bachmann 20t BR brake van, and what I see as obscene money for a loco 'finished' with visible seam lines, sink holes and mould ejector pin marks painted over still visible in the mould with fiddly bits falling off due the use of rubbish quality super glue and too much of it applied by young and disinterested PRC female labour force who understandably are just pushing out volume per hour. At just a shade under £200 and sometimes over, I'm offended. It's not as if they have anything remarkably complex, new era tech or particularly expensive in the way of an electric motor in them either. Maybe if they needed or did have an eFlite or Kontronik quality brushless inside I could see some rational in the pricing, but as it is!??? Less margin, more volume, higher production standards and far far better line to box and retail outlet QC.

Perhaps the "way forward" (vomit) for all would be to produce the product as an alternative in high quality self-assemby kit form of a standard DML or Eduard are capable of cutting out the labour and painting material content as a significantly cheaper alternative? Then they could offer high margin value adding PE and plastic detail add-on parts kits like Tamiya are cleverly doing now -see their latest 2015 release new tool Panther Ausf D (35345) in 1/35, so that everyone's level of detail demand or price point are met?