Brian Kirby Uncoupling method TWEAKED

[End2end]

I have tried the Brian Kirby uncoupling method for my layout using Peco setrack.
(https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=brian ... nzUKX7oqgE)

Instead of using kitchen cupboard magnets under the baseboard or under the track, which are quite large and for the "under the track" position un-retro-fittable without taking the track up, I have replaced the magnets with 3mm x 4mm Neodymium (N52) rod magnets. Possibly not available when Brian Kirby came up with the original method?
When researching the uncoupling method I came across a soloution where one modeller was using 2 magnets per placement (4 in total for each uncoupling position) in the sleeper gap, one magnet close to each rail. (as shown in my original trials on my layout thread - http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... 05#p592962 )
After I attatched staples to each of the coupling hooks on my rolling stock I found it not to be completely successful, having to use the hand of god frustratingly still, seemingly the magnetic field wanted to pull the staple over to one side or the other.
Some time was taken to slightly alter each staple on each wagon but as each magnet was slightly a different depth, once tweaked for one position the staple would then need to be re-tweaked for somewhere else. NOT IDEAL

Then I had a brain (BrIan? ) wave. I tried only using 1 magnet in the middle of the sleeper gap instead of 2 close to each rail and.... SUCCESS!!
Unlike the previously mentioned modeller's 2 magnet method which I found to be unreliable and you would have to be very accurate in shunting, the single magnet method works everytime and the error margin of accuracy is increased making missed uncoupling quite rare.
This way also means not much tweaking of the staple. Attatched straight horizontal with a 45 degree-ish should work.
So here's how I did it.

Firstly mark the positions of the magnet placement 4 sleepers / 3 gaps apart

Uncoupling3.JPG (51.98 KiB) Viewed 6145 times

Drill the 2 holes for the magents IN THE MIDDLE OF THE GAPS

Uncoupling4.JPG (54.84 KiB) Viewed 6145 times

Using a screw to hold the magnet

Uncoupling5.JPG (48.6 KiB) Viewed 6145 times

Tap into position with a hammer, using the screw head to stop going too deep. You can sink the magnet slightly lower than the sleeper if you need to.

Uncoupling6.JPG (33.93 KiB) Viewed 6145 times

Using the second magnet attatched to the screw to check that it has the same polarity as the first installed magnet by sticking it on top of the first. This should give a decent magnetic field.

Uncoupling7.JPG (34.66 KiB) Viewed 6145 times

More to follow......

Thanks
End2end

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Both magnets now installed

Uncoupling8.JPG (39.82 KiB) Viewed 6144 times

And the result.

Uncoupling9.JPG (35.65 KiB) Viewed 6144 times

This way has REALLY improved my shunting and running around, and thus enjoyment.
Even my Airfix Autocoach has had staples attached as the hooks are non ferrous metal.

Hope it helps!
Thanks
End2end

[Bufferstop]

E2e the two magnets either side of the track are a solution for KD's which use magnetic properties in a different way. They magnetise both pins of the coupled KD's to the same polarity causing them to fly apart, With the BK method you only need magnetic attraction to the tails. Watch out for the upper limit of magnetic strength, you'll know you've reached it when the couplers rise but pull the loose wagon towards the magnet and make the loco struggle to get away. A 9x3mm magnet will do it, even tries to stall wagons with steel axles. That's why I say 4x3mm is what's needed.

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Ahh yes I should have mentioned which type of coupler these are for as well as the track. KD's needing a horizontal movement rather than vertical?.
And yes the single magnet soloution has less attraction to the axles as well, finding as you say, them being attracted to the steel axles stalling rolling stock when using 2 magnets
Thanks
End2end

[ejstubbs]

I'm interested in your approach because I am still trying to get the Kirby method to work consistently with neo magnets. So far my best results have been by using 4mm diameter x 2mm thick disc magnets side by side, or single 6mm x 4mm x 2mm thick bar magnets. In each case I've had three sleepers (ie two gaps) between them; having them further apart didn't seem to work at all - either one coupling would rise, or the other, but not both.

I'd like to experiment with your approach, but some of the description of what you did isn't quite clear. You say you are using 3mm x 4mm rod magnets: which of those dimensions is the length, and which the diameter?

From your descriptions accompanying the photos, I believe that you are using two magnets in each hole, stacked one on top of the other with opposite poles together. Is that right, or have I misunderstood?

[Bufferstop]

I've been using 3mm dia by 4mm long neo magnets for about 3 years, set at 3 sleepers apart (Peco spacing) so magnets are in the first and forth spaces. I set the magnets in the ballast with the tops more or less level with the sleeper tops. I tried one pack of 8 or 9mm long magnets which were much too powerful, when pulling a train over them they accelerated the trailing wagon towards the one in front causing unwanted uncoupling. I got fed up of gluing staples on, I now use florists iron wire, I drill a 0.5mm hole in the bottom of the coupler dropper and another about half way up, make a U shape of wire one leg much shorter than the other and push it through the two holes in the dropper, long leg at the bottom, clinch the short leg against the arm and bend the long one back into a tail. I've found that bending the tail down in a shallow curve and bending the very end up in a tight curve gives much more latitude in postioning the couplers over the magnets, and the curled up end acts as a guide to make sure the end of the tail can't jam against a sleeper.

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I'd like to experiment with your approach, but some of the description of what you did isn't quite clear. You say you are using 3mm x 4mm rod magnets: which of those dimensions is the length, and which the diameter?

4mm long x 3mm diameter.

Ebay sale - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/100-N52-Neody ... 2a4c27981e
Direct website product - http://www.guysmagnets.com/view-product ... dymium-rod

From your descriptions accompanying the photos, I believe that you are using two magnets in each hole, stacked one on top of the other with opposite poles together. Is that right, or have I misunderstood?

No. I started with 2 magnets per sleeper gap position close to each rail but found that with them either side they were not effective enough. So now they are placed only 1 magnet per HOLE (in the middle of the sleeper gap), but 2 magnets per UNCOUPLING POSITION, 4 sleepers apart.

NOTE: ALL polarities are the same on all installed magnets.
Tested by using a 2nd magnet before installation to test the polarity of the first installed magnet by sticking it on top of the magnet temporarily.
As shown in the previous photo "Uncoupling7", I have used a screw to hold the 2nd magnet to see if it is attracted to the first.
Without the screw for the magnet to attract to, trying to get the 2nd magnet off of the top of the first (already installed) magnet is a pain in the rear as these magnets are very powerful for thier little size.

Here is a rough diagram from the side. (well out of scale as the magnets are actually level with the tops of the sleepers and slightly sunk into the baseboard)

BK UNCOUPLING DIAGRAM.JPG (13.37 KiB) Viewed 6087 times

Magnets installed 4 sleepers / 3 sleeper gaps apart.
Hope that helps
Thanks
End2end

[ejstubbs]

Thanks for that additional information, I'll get the longer 3mm diameter magnets ordered and do some testing with them.

I'd be surprised if there was much, if any, difference between having the polarity of the magnets the same or opposed. With my 2mm thick magnets two sleeper gaps apart, if you run a single wagon slowly over the magnets the coupling definitely lifts twice, dropping as it passes over the gap between the magnets. That suggests to me that there's very little "interference" between the magnetic fields of the two magnets.

However, I shall experiment further and report back if I find anything interesting.

[Bufferstop]

A useful tool for "planting" these magnets is a short length of 2mm brass tube with a close fitting straightened paperclip through it. The magnet will hold onto the end of the paper clip, you then use the brass tube to press the magnet into its hole, and whilst holding it down with the tube, pull out the paper clip leaving the magnet in situ. I put a blob of CA glue in the hole first and avoid passing anything magnetic over the magnet until the glue has had chance to hold it. Those little magnets are very badly behaved if you don't keep them firmly under control.

[Ex-Pat]

I've been following this thread with great interest as I am getting extremely frustrated with trying to find the optimum "design" and adjustment of the staple/florist's wire tail.

I hope End2end you don't mind me using your thread for appealing for more information, rather than starting a new thread.

I always find that photos help to get the message over. I've seen Brian Kirby's photos and that one from End2end on 28th July, but would like to see more - particularly shots of the underneath of the wagon and side-on shots of the tail in both on-magnet and off-magnet positions.

Does anybody use a tail long enough to go past the axle?

If your design is successful then please post photos - and that includes you please Bufferstop!

[Bufferstop]

Ex-pat - I've never used a tail that long, there's a limiting factor, if the tail is long enough to strike or catch on a sleeper when pulled down you have to bend it up in a curve so that it will lift itself over the sleeper, so there's a maximum length that you can use on each wagon. It's actually quite amusing to see a whole train stalled by the coupler tail on the last vehicle hooked into a sleeper, the loco with its wheels churning round and all the couplers stretched to bursting. Despite many of my couplers only being glued into the floor of the wagon or part of its chassis I never had one break off for this. I have had it pull the odd one out of its NEM pocket though.

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How's this Ex-Pat?

ForExPat1.JPG (39.4 KiB) Viewed 6026 times

ForExPat2.JPG (35.5 KiB) Viewed 6026 times

ForExPat3.JPG (41.36 KiB) Viewed 6026 times

A little hard to see as I painted them all black yesterday.
Hope it helps.
Thanks
End2end

[Ex-Pat]

Thank you Gents - I might try a more severe upward bend.

How high above rail height are your tails when not over magnets?

[End2end]

Thank you Gents - I might try a more severe upward bend.How high above rail height are your tails when not over magnets?

High enough to clear any pointwork. This is why I used staples, as thier length is set so no need to measure and cut. When over the magnets they don't actually touch, otherwise, as Bufferstop pointed out, they can get caught on the sleepers.
The way I twisted the staples stopped any kinking of the staple itself. One "pressed" via the stapler, open one leg out horizontally first rather than twisting it up vertically, THEN twist it up vertically. If you just try to twist the one leg vertical first you end up with a kink making tweaking harder and more prone to breaking the staple at the kink.
2 pairs of pliers helps, sliding them right up to the bend when trying to twist the one leg to vertical from previously pulling it out horizontally.
Hope that makes sense.
Another thing to mention.... On weathered hooks, make sure you superglue BOTH sides of the staple at the hook end to give it extra strength.
Thanks
End2end

[Ex-Pat]

Another thing to mention.... On weathered hooks, make sure you superglue BOTH sides of the staple at the hook end to give it extra strength.
Thanks
End2end

Thanks End2end - I'll attack the job again tomorrow.

One tip for those who have yet to do it is be sparing with the superglue - I've used cyanoacrylate and found it managed to travel up the coupling and gum up the box containing the spring!