Dad-1 - Workbench - West Bay Wagon Works

What are you up to on your workbench
Bigmet
Posts: 10289
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:19 pm

Re: Dad-1 - Workbench - West Bay Wagon Works

Post by Bigmet »

I'd so want to stick a trader's label on that, as it seemed to happen a lot on more unusual vehicles: ideally slightly flapping about along an edge. Very neat job overall.
Phred
Posts: 528
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:53 pm
Location: Queensland Australia

Re: Dad-1 - Workbench - West Bay Wagon Works

Post by Phred »

Very nice work on the calf box. :)
How do you apply the weathering without the decals coming adrift?
Dad-1
Posts: 7341
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:05 pm
Location: Dorset - A mile from West Bay.

Re: Dad-1 - Workbench - West Bay Wagon Works

Post by Dad-1 »

Hi phred,

I've been a bit slow in getting to try & answer your question.
One reason is the complexity of decals, there is no solution fixes all.
Decals can be either waterslide, and that general type has differences where carrier films are of different components.
Then you have pressfix, methfix, rub-down and it's easy to screw up when dealing with unknown responses.

First that calf box has a mixture of pressfix and waterslide. All decals prefer to go down on a gloss surface, you can often
get away on a satin surface, but the carrier film will look silver if you put directly onto matt paint. Most waterslide decals
will respond to a chemical treatment, in my case always Microset and microsol. that helps settle most decals over surface
undulations. When applied It crinkles the flattened and partially dried decal and helps it sink into panel lines and almost
moulds it onto the surface. Problem NOT all waterslide decals will respond to it, but even worse is the effect on pressfix
types where the subject never recovers from the shrinking effect.
Once the waterslides are on and treated they are able to accept thin washes of varnish without lifting, or moving them.
I do my weathering with washes of matt varnish mixed with any and several different paints - note I always use enamel paint.

Don't try wet washes on pressfix. It can loosen, distort and worse. With this calf box by mixing both types I've got a problem.
While the decal were laid onto a good satin finish I did a gloss varnish coat where they were going to be placed. Once on and
thoroughly dried I did a quick gloss over varnish - no after treatment. They should all be sealed now, but a very wet thin weathering
over varnish could just cause me problems so I shall make certain the decals, particularly the pressfix do not sit wet for more than
a few seconds.

All to play for ?

I have put thousands of decals down from my scale aircraft modelling. I've had waterslde decals collapse once you try to move
then off the backing. That was usually a Warsaw Pact countries problem, once you knew what they did you painted with a couple
of coats of gloss varnish before you tried to float them off. In fact that over painting was something I had to do on home
printed decals as inkjet printing was not waterproof. Super thin decals could be held by the water/adhesive surface tension film and
as you tried to slide off the decal would just slip over the edge staying well attached onto the back !

Ahh Varnish - I use Revell as it's a different chemical mix to Humbrol, which yellows.
Always a trip into the unknown !!

That's been a bit of a mountain type ramble. Hope it makes sense.

Geoff T.
Dad-1
Posts: 7341
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:05 pm
Location: Dorset - A mile from West Bay.

Re: Dad-1 - Workbench - West Bay Wagon Works

Post by Dad-1 »

Bigmet,

I'm about to try a single ply of quality toilet paper, stuck in place by a dab
of enamel Humbrol varnish, it'll yellow and be partially translucent. Hoping
that even without any printing it'll look like an old destination instructions/marker.

I tried the idea a few years back on a notice board behind the weighbridge on
HSII.

Geoff T
Phred
Posts: 528
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:53 pm
Location: Queensland Australia

Re: Dad-1 - Workbench - West Bay Wagon Works

Post by Phred »

Dad-1 wrote:
Hope it makes sense.
Makes a lot of sense, and explains a few decal glitches I've had over the years. Thanks for that.
The toilet paper label sounds interesting. :)
Dad-1
Posts: 7341
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:05 pm
Location: Dorset - A mile from West Bay.

Re: Dad-1 - Workbench - West Bay Wagon Works

Post by Dad-1 »

O.K I need another wagon like a hole in the head - I have a hole in the head it's supposed to
have a brain in it !!!!

I started a Parkside Fruit D, and now have to find a suitable colour for a BR steam period version.
Coach Crimson, or coach Maroon ????? Perhaps even just good old BR Bauxite, either early, or late.
Certainly some XP wagons were painted to fit in with coaching stock as they frequently ran in
passenger train configurations.

I also find I have more Fruit 'D's than I thought. Here are 3 of my 5 lined up on the coupling fixing
track. Interesting to do some comparisons.

Image

First we have a BR blue from Dapol. When comparing to my Parkside kit I come away with the conclusion
that using the Dapol version is a wise move unless you enjoy making kits. Pretty much everything is there
although I note it says 12 Ton ??? As far as I'm concerned there were and always will be 10 Ton vehicles.
It needs Kadee No.20's if you use the as fitted Dapol NEM pockets

Second my unpainted Parkside kit, so comparable with the Dapol for detail. I want mine as a BR period,
but within my stock of Humbrol paints I have nothing that looks acceptable. It's been weighted with a pile
of 2 x 2 penny pieces at each end, under a plasticard cage so they can't break free. To allow for the longer
buffers I've used Kadee No.19's - Most of my stock uses No.18's.

Third, a BR red version of the Wrenn model. While the body is comparable with either the Dapol, or Parkside
kit. In fact the roof looks JUST like the Dapol, however it fails miserably when you look at the chassis, including
the buffers. Quite honestly the work needed to bring it up to scratch is simply not worth it. Mind you if running
by in a train would you notice ? I even have one of my 5 marked as a Tool Van in orange which seems to be the a
severely faded red, or bauxite that turns to orange. You can update changing to modern standard wheels, as
well as replacing the big old Triang style metal couplers.

Image

My Tool Van - under done conversion as it's a siding queen.

Image

The 5th one is another Wrenn in GWR passenger brown and sits on the loft layout.

Geoff T.
Bigmet
Posts: 10289
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:19 pm

Re: Dad-1 - Workbench - West Bay Wagon Works

Post by Bigmet »

Dad-1 wrote: Sun Mar 24, 2024 1:09 pm ...I'm about to try a single ply of quality toilet paper, stuck in place by a dab of enamel Humbrol varnish, it'll yellow and be partially translucent. Hoping that even without any printing it'll look like an old destination instructions/marker...
That's my regular choice of material too (Tesco Cheapiest, definitely not 'Thoroughbred'). Taped to a sheet of A4 it can be inkjet printed too, copying miniaturised posters, and typically comes out looking 'faded' and a bit blurry, just the effect required.
Dad-1
Posts: 7341
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:05 pm
Location: Dorset - A mile from West Bay.

Re: Dad-1 - Workbench - West Bay Wagon Works

Post by Dad-1 »

Ahh Bigmet, home printers, no, can't be doing with that now..

Certainly I keep to faded, obliterated, only there was never anything there !
I have thought about a gentle pencil with a super-fine point.
Anyway here are 4 labels stuck down with satin varnish, looks like I need to
buy another Humbrol matt.
Because it was satin I tried the lightest touch and the van colour has not shewn through
as clear as some. I've not tried weathering over ? It may give an interesting result, but
I have hundreds of wagons that I've not got around to weathering YET.

Image

Image

Put on this old Wrenn wagon as I wasn't ready to do any of the good ones.
Strange van - running number identifies as a departmental van, so why a Walls advert ????
Ahh people would buy it because it was different.

Geoff T.
Dad-1
Posts: 7341
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:05 pm
Location: Dorset - A mile from West Bay.

Re: Dad-1 - Workbench - West Bay Wagon Works

Post by Dad-1 »

For Anyone who doubts that a dab of varnish will hold on
well enough. Here are a couple of notices fixed to a noticeboard
on the back of a weigh-bridge office.

Image

Still secure after 5 years in a shed - fiddly, but try it.

Geoff T.
Bigmet
Posts: 10289
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:19 pm

Re: Dad-1 - Workbench - West Bay Wagon Works

Post by Bigmet »

Dad-1 wrote: Mon Mar 25, 2024 7:28 pm ...Strange van - running number identifies as a departmental van, so why a Walls advert ?
I'd be telling the curious that the Engineer's dept. got a discount on food supply for their crews by trading the suppliers advertising in exchange.
User avatar
Bufferstop
Posts: 13839
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:06 pm
Location: Bottom end of N. Warks line

Re: Dad-1 - Workbench - West Bay Wagon Works

Post by Bufferstop »

I'd be telling the curious that the Engineer's dept. got a discount on food supply for their crews by trading the suppliers advertising in exchange.
:D
Growing old, can't avoid it. Growing up, forget it!
My Layout, My Workbench Blog and My Opinions
Dad-1
Posts: 7341
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:05 pm
Location: Dorset - A mile from West Bay.

Re: Dad-1 - Workbench - West Bay Wagon Works

Post by Dad-1 »

Fisherman's Tales, or tall stories !!

My damned knee is giving trouble again - Thought it was O.K yesterday and probably over did it.
The most comfortable place is sitting at the kitchen table, the very place where I do my wagon
work.

There is this Mainline GWR Match Truck sitting on Chalkhill by a Triang crane. The crane has been
converted to modern wheels and Kadee couplers. The Mainline wagon as original, now I do like
Mainline wagons, but not the quite wide couplers. I decided to up-date, after sawing all the
original coupler mountings off I noticed that one of the buffer tops was broken. Damn I hate that !!

I decided to revert to the long known superglue and bicarbonate of soda trick to rebuild the missing
section. It's a case of adding a blob, or whatever you get, along the broken edge, then dip into the
bicarbonate of soda. Wipe away any loose bicarb and repeat, do several times until you have enough
build-up to allow filing and sanding back to the required shape & size. If you've not built up quite
enough you can continue after some initial cleaning up.

Here is the repair, the infill being translucent. It's surprising how thin you can go before it breaks up.

Image

Now over painted with what I had hoped would be nearer the Mainline equivalent of GWR freight grey.
I might now paint the chassis black as the difference between these grey colours is excessive.

Image

Believe me it's the reflection that makes it look like the top isn't full formed - it is all fine !!

Kadees now on, a sponge brake under one axle and it works very well without any added weight.
Another saved wagon, next some wooden packing materials and a couple of crow-bars to plonk on
it's deck.

Geoff T.
Phred
Posts: 528
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:53 pm
Location: Queensland Australia

Re: Dad-1 - Workbench - West Bay Wagon Works

Post by Phred »

Hmm. I didn't notice this post until now for some reason.
I have seen the superglue and bicarb thing on YouTube but didn't take too much notice. Nice to see that it works in 'real life'. The repair came up very nicely.
Peterm
Posts: 1883
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:26 pm
Location: Bribie Island. Australia

Re: Dad-1 - Workbench - West Bay Wagon Works

Post by Peterm »

That really works then. I thought it might have been an idiot making it up. Nice job, Geoff.
Pete.
User avatar
Mountain
Posts: 5924
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:43 pm
Location: UK.

Re: Dad-1 - Workbench - West Bay Wagon Works

Post by Mountain »

When I was building resin kits which are made from castings, I would be often filing parts to fit , especially when I made my own castings, and I save the tiny resin filings, as these mixed with runny superglue make perfect filler for repairing things which gives a sort of similar effect. I only used resin filings as they were convenient when building kits and things. Not tried bi-carbonate of soda yet as I didn't have any handy at the time.
Superglue can be used with a few different materials. When building my layout (Which I have packed away somewhere) I was using superglue and sawdust to fill in unwanted holes. Wood glue may be better but superglue worked fine.

Your repair is excellent and I wonder if superglue and bicarbonate of soda would be good at making wheel flanges? Reason why I say that is that resin itself can only go down to a certain thickness before it becomes too brittle to use, and wheel flanges are just beyond the limit unless they are left coarse scale and thick. I wanted to experiment just for the fun of it. (I know metal wheels are better. Was just seeing if I could make my own).
I am wondering if small wheels can be made using the superglue method? Have me thinking!
Post Reply