Tornado express coach question

[VonkeyVong]

I went to Newbury yesterday and saw 'Tornado' for the first time, what a locomotive, a real assault on the senses!!!

I noticed it was pulling a coach with a lagge diesel generator in it, my question is what is this coach, can this coach be bought in 'oo' and would it have been pulled by BR steam period locomotives.

[Zunnan]

Its a generator/support coach, used to provide power for ETH (electric train heating, including aircon) fitted stock that the locomotive cannot provide by itself, a lot of mainline steam excursions now use them as an alternative to needing a diesel locomotive being dragged along. They're only really used for preserved mainline running, and are a relatively modern introduction. They're not available RTR, you'll have to convert a RTR coach which in itself should be pretty straightforward depending on which generator van you did; some are easier than others. By "BR steam period" I presume you mean pre-1968, there was no need for them as most coaches were still steam heated back then, diesels of the day had steam heat boilers to do the job.

[Essex2Visuvesi]

I thought bachmann released a support coach

[Zunnan]

Sort of, the A1 Trust comissioned Bachmann to produce a limited edition BCK painted up as the support coach that they're currently overhauling/converting. I'm sure others have been comissioned as limited editions elsewhere but they'll only be based on the original toolings rather than a bespoke model with modifications carried out.

[roadie stu]

Sort of, the A1 Trust comissioned Bachmann to produce a limited edition BCK painted up as the support coach that they're currently overhauling/converting. I'm sure others have been comissioned as limited editions elsewhere but they'll only be based on the original toolings rather than a bespoke model with modifications carried out.

I know the NRM and 60007 groups have commissioned replica support coaches for general sale,

on the subject of the coaches with diesel generators, I've been thinking that a combined generator/water carrier GUV would look better in a train formation and also help to ensure better running of railtours, both forms of these coaches have been sucsessfully used, so combining the two makes sense to me and shouldn't increase the overall load of the train by an excessive ammount, and it would aslo mean that there will be garunteed train heating and power ( a common complaint on railtours) and a back up supply of water ( another common problem on steam railtours)

what does everyone else think?

Cheers

Stu

[Bufferstop]

On a couple of occasions I've noticed one in the set for diesel (67) hauled tours as well. It's probably easier than removing them from the set. It also avoids complaints from the neighbours having a loco start up at 5am then tick over for hours while the kitchen car gets breakfast ready for an early departure.

[Zunnan]

on the subject of the coaches with diesel generators, I've been thinking that a combined generator/water carrier GUV would look better in a train formation and also help to ensure better running of railtours

I'm sure I read of something along these lines some years ago to run with one of the mainline certified GWR locos; I wonder what happened to that idea?

I can think of a few problems with water tanks in a GUV, the big one being a problem that afflicted the Amtrak SDP40F so much that they were withdrawn and sold on - moving water in a lightweight body. Probably overcomable in the same way as it was in fire engines with the use of baffles, but then there is the issue of feeding that water back to the locomotive as it would not be practical to keep the water level with that in the tender itself. Then there is the sheer weight of the water and its tank being in a vehicle that has a design capacity of 14t, as well as fitting whatever generator equipment would be required. It is probably doable and definately a good idea, but is it more cost effective than having a water tanker waiting at a strategic point along a route? Coal capacity can also be an issue, maybe it would be worth combining a water carrier with an increased coal capacity at the cost of water capacity in the tender itself.

[roadie stu]

I'm sure I read of something along these lines some years ago to run with one of the mainline certified GWR locos; I wonder what happened to that idea?

yes there was, but other events conspired into the abandonment and sale of said item.....but We won't go into that......

I can think of a few problems with water tanks in a GUV, the big one being a problem that afflicted the Amtrak SDP40F so much that they were withdrawn and sold on - moving water in a lightweight body. Probably overcomable in the same way as it was in fire engines with the use of baffles, but then there is the issue of feeding that water back to the locomotive as it would not be practical to keep the water level with that in the tender itself. Then there is the sheer weight of the water and its tank being in a vehicle that has a design capacity of 14t, as well as fitting whatever generator equipment would be required. It is probably doable and definately a good idea, but is it more cost effective than having a water tanker waiting at a strategic point along a route? Coal capacity can also be an issue, maybe it would be worth combining a water carrier with an increased coal capacity at the cost of water capacity in the tender itself.

When they did the Non stop bristolian with 5043, the GUV had the water in the water tanks in cages linked together with hoses, so that will save the need for a tank with baffles and they don't weigh much empty, they had a total of 3,000 gallons of extra water to use
on the water feed issue, it was found that the exhaust injector on said main line cretified GW loco metioned earlier was sufficient to replenish the water in the tender from the supply in the tanks, 5043 was found not to have needed the extra water on the Bristolian run

so if you had say 1,500 gallons of water (that would weigh roughly 6t), that would give a "safety cushion" for water (railtours are required to finish with a minimum of 1,000 gallons of water left in the tender), then that would give 8t for the diesel generator (in theory) unless anyone has more accurate weight totals, but as most generators are fitted to brake coaches, i don't think they can weigh more than 2t (going on loading markings on other brake coaches), and it would also give somewhere for storing extra bags of coal for emergencies,

I know there are other factors that affect railtours, but I feel with those items in place, there would be a bigger safety margin for steam hauled railtours

Cheers

Stu