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Furness Railway: Coach Livery Please

Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 3:27 pm
by Katabatic
Will anyone (John AKA Bufferstop?) be able and willing to post a colour illustration of the Furness Railway pre-grouping blue/white passenger coach livery (but without infringing any copyright please)? Or a web link even?

Otherwise, a reference to the correct book will be just as helpful.

And did the FR run "indian red" coaches as well (up to 1923)? If so, is it possible that both liveries were operational (on FR metal) in 1922?

Thanks so much.

Re: Furness Railway: Coach Livery Please

Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:24 pm
by Bufferstop
Hi Katabatic,
I'm afraid your out of my timeframe, I stick to modelling the preservation scene and I'm not too fussy about accurate colours. When it comes to historical colours you need as many pictures and descriptions as you can get. I suppose the experts would be the HMRS (Historical Model Railway Society) publications.
John W
aka Bufferstop.

Re: Furness Railway: Coach Livery Please

Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:35 pm
by Katabatic
Hello John,

All the drawings and pictures (of models) that I have seen so far are in monochrome. So I can't tell how "deep" the blue is.

But after joining the Cumbrian Railway Modellers e-group (today) I shall remain hopeful.

Will carry on shovelling.....

Many thanks.

Re: Furness Railway: Coach Livery Please

Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 6:43 pm
by Bufferstop
Hi, You should be able to get at least an average of everyone's idea of the colours. Given that most of us wouldn't dare buy paint to match the decor at home without taking a sample with us, how do you decide the exact shade of a colour from 80-90 years ago. We can only usually be sure when someone has taken samples from a surviving item and had the paint layers analysed. Even that can give erronious results as until the 1960s all paints faded rapidly when exposed to sunlight, but the top surface would have been scraped off before repainting. They did this to the GWR footbridge at our station. They came up with salmon pink and straw yellow, which was probably right the day after it was painted in 1912.
John W
aka Bufferstop.

Re: Furness Railway: Coach Livery Please

Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:38 pm
by Katabatic
John you are a font of wisdom. And of course you are spot on.

I have heard (from a single source) that a darker shade of Oxford blue may have been used. But a cross section of informed opinions will be best, as you say.

Thanks again.

Re: Furness Railway: Coach Livery Please

Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:13 am
by b308
Katabatic wrote:I have heard (from a single source) that a darker shade of Oxford blue may have been used
This one probably... :wink:

http://www.igg.org.uk/gansg/00-app2/lms/fr.htm

Re: Furness Railway: Coach Livery Please

Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 2:40 pm
by Katabatic
Yes, perfect. Thanks! I couldn't find the correct bookmark yesterday.....

The first FR passenger coaches were in varnished teak. The blue and white livery was introduced later, either in the 1870's or 1895/6 (am presently unsure which, or perhaps there were 2 versions). In 1895/6 the scheme was (re)named "Ultramarine Blue and White".

Then, according to the "Cumberland and Westmorland Archives", after 1920 and before the new LMS livery was adopted, all coaches requiring a repaint were made "blue all over" (as an economy measure, apparently).

The "Indian Red" passenger livery I eluded to earlier might be a figment of my imagination, though I am sure I have seen a reference somewhere!

In modern times, "Ultramarine Blue" covers a pretty broad spectrum, hence my confusion, I think.

Here are two examples of what I mean:

1. The FR blue/white scheme is apparently "reminiscent" of the Skarloey Railway coach livery, as modelled by Rev Awdry. The image suggests a much lighter shade of blue:

http://www.pegnsean.net/~railwayseries/skarloey.htm (bottom of the page)

2. To compare, here's modeller Bill Pearce's rake in the darker blue:

http://www.s-scale.org.uk/gallery19.htm

Bill's deep blue approximates to the shade more recently adopted by Hornby for their make-believe dublo "City Industrial" trainset 4-wheeler (hauled by a "fictitious Furness Railway" 0-4-0ST shunter). The Hornby coach (which also appears in the "Blue Highlander" trainset) is actually a good deal darker than the "City Industrial" box cover illustration suggests.

Finally, "Phoenix Precision" sell tinlets of "Furness Railway Coach Blue" (paint code P802).
I might buy a pot just to see what it looks like :wink:

Re: Furness Railway: Coach Livery Please

Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2023 9:34 pm
by Tiddles
In 2007 Christopher Awdry released a book called "Thomas and Victoria".

I was researching how to create a model of Victoria based on a Bachmann Clarabelle coach. That is how I discovered this post.

I had forgotten the Skarloey Railway coaches where blue and white. I wonder if that was the inspiration for Victoria or if the Furness Railway colours where the inspiration for his father for the Skarloey Railway.

https://ttte.fandom.com/wiki/Thomas_and_Victoria

As for the colures I plan to use the book as my guide but it would be fascinating to see what the original Furness colours where like.

Re: Furness Railway: Coach Livery Please

Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2023 7:35 pm
by Richard08
These folks may be able to help : http://www.furnessrailwaytrust.org.uk/

Re: Furness Railway: Coach Livery Please

Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2023 7:35 pm
by whufcfan

Re: Furness Railway: Coach Livery Please

Posted: Sun May 19, 2024 7:21 am
by NorthBritish
Furness coaches were a mid blue colour with a off white for the panels. I built a rake of coaches some years ago in 0 gauge which were a semi scratch build, they were a nice interesting rake & striking in colour. Phoenix precision paints produce both colours.


Simon