9 inch radius, what struggles?

Discussion of N gauge model railway specific products and related model railway topics (problems and solutions). (Graham Farish, Dapol, Peco)
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blooregard
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9 inch radius, what struggles?

Postby blooregard » Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:44 pm

I'm planning a new layout for later in the year but I am quite tight on space and may need to use a 9 inch radius on part of the hidden sections.

I am fairly certain that all of my locos will cope with this but can anyone let me know of any locos that they have seen to have issues??

Cheers chaps!
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bigbob
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Re: 9 inch radius, what struggles?

Postby bigbob » Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:54 pm

Couple of my 66s have struggled on tight bends, fortunatly it was flexi so could play with it a bit.

Bob
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smallman28
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Re: 9 inch radius, what struggles?

Postby smallman28 » Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:20 pm

Dapol 66 I had didn't like them,made a racket as it was but twice as bad with 9" radius curves.
I have 9" radius turns on my current layout as well and everything I have at the moment makes it round them fine,108 DMU,class 37 & 47 and Voyager 220.
You can see and hear that the 220 isn't a huge fan of such tight turns but it does get round okay :D
Is it not possible to put a short straight in the middle of the bend?

phonebook
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Re: 9 inch radius, what struggles?

Postby phonebook » Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:27 pm

my experience too, is everything but some look like they dont like it- i do think that is aesthetical tho- it sort of looks precarious with a long loco travelling at speed. My Kato Eurostar really isnt a fan tho- but if the couplings are right, then it does

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blooregard
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Re: 9 inch radius, what struggles?

Postby blooregard » Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:34 pm

Thanks chaps, I'm not to worried about the aesthetics of the bends just their performance, they will be in a hidden layer of the layout so will be invisible.

I think I might get away with it but I have a lot of planning to do yet so I may be able to increase the size of the layout at the ends.
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phonebook
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Re: 9 inch radius, what struggles?

Postby phonebook » Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:53 pm

you just have to remember, that radius 1 in N is the equivelent of radius 2 in OO

and there's the rub, because some of the front pony trucks that come as accessories with the big steam engines, and other stuff as well wont go through radius 1 in N (or radius 2 in OO) apparently- plenty of people have indicated so in other posts.

m8internet
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Re: 9 inch radius, what struggles?

Postby m8internet » Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:57 am

I made a slight mistake during the construction of my fiddle yard and I ended up with two very tight curves; tighter than a 9" radius curve
I therefore tested a Class 57, 66, and more recently my 220

To start with the Class 57 leading wheelset was jumping off
So lifted the track and revised the curve
The Class 57 now completes this
I then tested the Class 66 and 220, they too now pass without any problem

The curve is only three inches in length, but it is still tighter than a 9" radius curve!
Ironically, my Class 220 is not likely to be using this (as it is the slow line) but I just need to make sure it can handle it, although I will make every effort not have it use this route!
Testing is the only way to check what works

The main curve is a 90 degree 9" radius curve, and I've never had any problems with them
Glasgow Queen Street Model Railway layout : modern image N gauge using DCC

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MrT
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Re: 9 inch radius, what struggles?

Postby MrT » Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:42 am

My layout has 9" curves - the following have struggled:

Dapol Voyager (derailed - the Farish one had no problems whatsoever)
Dapol 9F (made it round but slipped very badly - was quite comical)
Dapol 73 (derails one way round only so I assume this is poor wheel alignment on my example)
Dapol 156 (derails one way round only - due to lightness of dummy car I think)
Farish VGAs (fine on 9" curves but not on setrack 9" crossover!)
Dapol 66 (an early one - later ones are fine - it went round but made a racket, as others have said)

Everything else has run fine.

m8internet
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Re: 9 inch radius, what struggles?

Postby m8internet » Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:52 pm

MrT wrote:My layout has 9" curves - the following have struggled :
Dapol Voyager
Farish VGAs
Dapol 66

Where are you measuring the 9" to, the edge of the sleeper or the centre of the track?

I am concerned that you say the BachFar Class 220 runs, but the Dapol Voyager does not
I am considering a Dapol Class 221 as my next main purchase
However I may have to do the same as for my Class 220 and restrict it to the fast lines only in the fiddle yards

As for the BachFar VGA and Dapol Class 66, I have not any issues (although I know the VGA is at the limit as the coupling can be seen rotating!)
Glasgow Queen Street Model Railway layout : modern image N gauge using DCC

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MrT
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Re: 9 inch radius, what struggles?

Postby MrT » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:35 pm

m8internet wrote:Where are you measuring the 9" to, the edge of the sleeper or the centre of the track?


My curves are the same geometry as radius 1 setrack. I'm not sure which of those options that is, sorry Marcus.

m8internet wrote:I am concerned that you say the BachFar Class 220 runs, but the Dapol Voyager does not
I am considering a Dapol Class 221 as my next main purchase
However I may have to do the same as for my Class 220 and restrict it to the fast lines only in the fiddle yards


As far as I know (and I might be wrong here but I think I'm right!) the Dapol Voyagers were updated in the middle of the production run and became much better - I'm not sure if the one which we tried on my layout was an earlier one but I am assuming so. It derailed, made a racket and was terrible. The BachFar one was absolutely perfect. The Dapol one could just have been a 'Friday' train though - the running standards of all the 73s I've tried vary greatly.

It is worth pointing out, though, that the super-creep motor used in the 67s etc and the low profile motor in the DMUs made by them now are both fine and most excellent in my opinion.

m8internet wrote:As for the BachFar VGA and Dapol Class 66, I have not any issues (although I know the VGA is at the limit as the coupling can be seen rotating!)


As I said, the VGAs are fine on 9" curves but can't cope with setrack point crossovers.

Grahame
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Re: 9 inch radius, what struggles?

Postby Grahame » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:44 pm

m8internet wrote:I am concerned that you say the BachFar Class 220 runs, but the Dapol Voyager does not


I've run Dapol Virgin Voyagers around 9" curves without any probems - in fact my one has even got around less than 9" happilly.

However, a Dapol B17 struggled a bit, and so too the Farish VGAs

G.

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Re: 9 inch radius, what struggles?

Postby locoworks » Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:13 pm

track radius regarding set track is ALWAYS refering to the centre point between the rails, or where the pre made holes are for track pins on plain track.

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THE CHIEF
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Re: 9 inch radius, what struggles?

Postby THE CHIEF » Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:07 pm

The class 73 should be fine as ive run at least 5 with no problems. The dapol 9f however... that likes to jump of the track. The main problem is the dapol ctt vans back to back on a cross over made from two set track points. Thats got no chance lol.

m8internet
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Re: 9 inch radius, what struggles?

Postby m8internet » Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:58 pm

m8internet wrote:I am concerned that you say the BachFar Class 220 runs, but the Dapol Voyager does not
I am considering a Dapol Class 221 as my next main purchase
However I may have to do the same as for my Class 220 and restrict it to the fast lines only in the fiddle yards

Tested all three of my Voyagers today, as they have all now been fitted with decoder, to see how they cope with the pointwork and gradients
I had already decided to restrict them to specific routes in the fiddle yards, and they all coped with these

The BachFar Class 220 operates on all sections without any problem

However, the Dapol Class 220 and Class 221 kept stuttering and switching off on the gradients in the scenic area
So I blasted the Class 220 down the gradient, to see what happened
Well it made it to the bottom but went a little Grayrigg!
I then made a closer inspection to see why they were derailing, by making one big long Voyager of trailers
The second bogie leaves the track, followed shortly after by the third bogie, resulting in the loss of electrical continuity on the gradient
The second bogie then meets the curve, resulting in the derailment

On the plus side the Voyagers cope with the helix, presumably as the transition is straight and the curves are continuous without any change in gradient

Therefore only the BachFar Class 220 can operate to the branch
If it is possible to replace the Dapol couplings with those from the BachFar, then I will perform this in the future
Glasgow Queen Street Model Railway layout : modern image N gauge using DCC


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