The Plan (Updated)

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S_Jay
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The Plan (Updated)

Postby S_Jay » Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:38 pm

Hi All,

I’m starting this with a view to the long term. Below is the first stage of my garage plan. While I have the wood & track I don’t have a garage that I can use, yet.

Here is the plan
Image

The plan
It’s a 5 platform station, the longest platform is just over 8 feet and the shortest around 5 feet. There is also 2 carriage sidings/ Car unloading ramp.
At the top to the right is a fuelling point designed to take DMU’s and visiting loco’s. The bottom is a 4 road fiddle yard which connects to a 2 road loading area. What I’m going to load/unload I’m not sure either containers or bulk aggregates.
The Layout
This will be connected to a 180 deg turn and incline leading to a fiddle yard at first but eventually a looped 8 and junction station.

Location
Fisshguard is really Fishguard, but with it’s history and geography changed quite a bit.
Fisshguard harbour is one of the best natural harbours in the UK if not the world. In the 1800’s and 1900’s coal from all over south Wales was bought down to the harbour for shipment. While the Harbour is impressive the natural geography is less than helpful. Fisshguard is on a small alluvial plain surrounded by 6 high mountains making access to the town via the five valleys (or the five fingers of Fisshguard). When the railways came there was only one real route from Cardiff but this was in use by the toll road. So the railways came around the coast on a 4 ¾ mile causeway. The first station built in the 1870’s. Coal traffic quickly expanded the railway and by 1909 every available inch of land was coal sidings. Between 1870 and 1914 the harbour was extended and rebuilt three times (with a fourth and final extension in 1965). The current station built in 1901 stands a large quay built especially for this purpose. The natural geography has always made road access difficult and so the natural instinct has always been to take the train.
Today Ferries to Ireland, France and Spain dock alongside the station with cargo vessels docking the other side. Cargo traffic is rather sporadic in nature but there are regular container shipments and GM import some cars into the UK and Europe through this harbour. Both the containers and cars are moved by rail. The natural geography and ferry’s mean that passenger traffic is much higher than you would normally expect for a town of this size.

Operations – I’m planning to loosely base the date around 2004/5 so modern but before the current round of franchise changes. There will be direct services from London (7 car HST set) as well XC from Newcastle and Another (Voyager, 5 car HST loco hauled Mk2). Plus local services (158, 155 DMU’s) and longer regional services to Manchester/Liverpool (Loco hauled Mk2, 170, 158). As drawn the fiddle yard/loading area will take, 7 container flats or 9/10 105 tonne wagons (or about 14-15 seacows).

TOC – First great Western, Virgin XC, Central trains and Arriva Wales.
Types – Passenger types HST sets, Loco hauled MK2’s, 158, 155 and 170 turbostars. Plus Express Parcel vans
Freight – Containers/aggregates’, car flats.

It’s a long term project so don’t expect weekly updates!!

Any comments welcome especially about operations or the plan :D :)
:?:
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S_Jay
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Re: The Plan (Updated)

Postby S_Jay » Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:25 pm

Oh and the garage is now fixed, Ijust need to paint it and fit new doors :)
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S_Jay
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Re: The Plan (Updated)

Postby S_Jay » Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:46 pm

Right I'm always thinking about this plan (when I'm online) and I have reduced the number of double slips. I now only have one which is needed as I want a 70inch min length in the container terminal.
I have also added a junction so trains can enter the station from the freight line. This moves it from a freight line to a relief/branch line.
:D 8) :)

Image
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S_Jay
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Re: The Plan (Updated)

Postby S_Jay » Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:25 pm

Right here is my final plan, please compare and contrast with the plan above. This one has more longer platforms and is more proto-typical but all th duller for it :(

Image

Post a comment, I know you're there this thread has been viewed over 490 times! :)
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leopard
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Re: The Plan (Updated)

Postby leopard » Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:59 pm

i like it, hook it with a decent sized fiddle yard, and decent length trains will appear.

a mainline terminus needs to look like one really, this will

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S_Jay
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Re: The Plan (Updated)

Postby S_Jay » Tue Aug 26, 2008 11:01 pm

Evening all,

Camera bust so the money saved for wood has to be spent on camera. Oh well.
In the mean time I've placed the plan in a wider context.

http://img515.imageshack.us/my.php?image=widerplanwc3.jpg

Sorry for th link but I couldn't get the image to display. Anyway, the red & yellow lines are the mainline it will cross under the main station and I hope to have a small storage yard under there to. As you can see point x--x matches to point x--x on the other side and y--y matches to y--y. The green line is the goods/relief line, I've dropped two roads in the yard to allow more width for the main lines. The container base should take 8 bachmann flats with the longest siding (just) able to fit 8 flats + class 66. The aqua line on the left is the head shunt for the container yard which will be worked buy a hunslet 0-6-0 shunter (brass kit) and a class 08. The main platforms will take a 9 car HST and the top platform will take 8 rail-express vans plus a Class 67.

Slow progress but once I've got a new camera I'll take some pictures and get posting.

Cheers for looking :)
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My layout with no progress http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic.php?t=14866
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S_Jay
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Re: The Plan (Updated)

Postby S_Jay » Fri Oct 10, 2008 11:06 pm

Quick update,

ImageImage

the plan is that the green line is the main arrival and departure roads the aqua area is strictly for the shunting engines only. All of the blue line can take 8 container flats plus a class 08 shunter, and the green arrival departure lines can take 8 container flats, up to 2 full sized loco's and a shunter!! :)

not much more add really :)
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My layout with no progress http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic.php?t=14866
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leopard
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Re: The Plan (Updated)

Postby leopard » Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:19 am

looks good, the only issue, which to be fair more or less every plan of this nature has.

at the station its easy to turn trains round, its a station after all. but how do you turn them in the wild? multiple units can obviously run both ways but freight trains don't.

I'd be seriously tempted to put a reverse loop in, or ideally a twin one, but defiantly keep the continuous run to see them long trains roll.

the station area is fantastic and will look amazing. and looks like it will work pretty well, just wondering how the trains return having left?

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S_Jay
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Re: The Plan (Updated)

Postby S_Jay » Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:08 pm

Hi leopard, thanks for your interest.

Your point has not gone unnoticed and if you look at the fuel point you'll see it's stuck out at an angle the makes it wider than the 75cm of the main board. This is partly to cover a return loop that runs under that end of the layout. Trains joining the main line at the junction (Junction A) will duck under with just enough clearance from point X-X hug the back wall before cutting across the storage sidings and return loop to emerge at the other x-x. This line then falls again before going under again and entering a storage yard with a return loop and a junction allowing trains to emerge at y-y. the climb from y-y back up to the junction (A) with the falling line coming in from the station will be the steepest part of the layout but so far that means a climb of around 1 in 40.

However this is the last part of the plan and on current progress should be entering in service around 2014. Once I've worked out the best wway of doing this I'll post that plan!
:)
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My layout with no progress http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic.php?t=14866
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leopard
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Re: The Plan (Updated)

Postby leopard » Sat Nov 08, 2008 11:07 am

return loops are always good, and a hidden one is better, since modern stock will generally go round an 18" curve, if taken slowly, though I'd aim for around 21" with your full length rakes, and take it smoothly round (no stopping or starting) or the "bow string effect" will pull half the rake sideways.

of course the reason for hiding the loop is the tight curves generally look daft, a more open curve (21"+) for the loop can be exposed but obviously takes more space.

well worth doing, obviously with mostly DMU/DEMU stock its easy enough to have a crossover somewhere on a twin loop, and simply drive it the other way, so the only things that need the loop becomes your freight and parcels trains.

as for the 2014 comment, a feeling I know well. I started laying boards 2006 between jobs, and it was only about two months ago the first train actually moved on the full circuit under its own power. these things take time.

personally I like this style of layout, a single station but done well, the rest of the layout is simply running space.

one trick you may want to consider is to have the return loop at an even lower level, with a single track entrance to it, and a crossover to get back. this way the loop can generally be larger, and the incline can be hidden below the station. its also then possible to be sneaky and have one or three holding loops, full length, on that gradient on the approach to the loop. tada instant increase in layout capacity.

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S_Jay
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Re: The Plan (Updated)

Postby S_Jay » Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:57 pm

Hi there I've made a small adjustment to my plan.

Image

Coming off the green goods line on the right is a purple loop. If I go with this plan the purple loop will be a aggregates loading point in the style of the small Castle cement (?) loading point just outside St Pancreas intl. It will give an excuse for running the large hooper wagons up the hill for loading. And just as in real life this is small and right up along side the mainline.

It always pays to watch out and you’ll see excellent examples to model in miniature


:)
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Re: The Plan (Updated)

Postby S_Jay » Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:14 pm

Hello again,

This thread http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=25534 by NSE Kiwi prompted me to revisit the plan that inspired this thread, and that has prompted me to write a little bit on the history of this plan.

This is plan 15 from the Peco track plan booklet and is a terminus out and back, which I have recreated using Peco code 100 streamline with small points and a min radius of 60cm (2ft)

Image

I have tried drawing this a few times and always failed until I stopped trying to be so ambitious. Given the space it is amazing how much can be fitted in. Not only is there a 5 platform station but there is also space for a modern goods yard, 5 road maintenance dept and a through station! But all this comes at the expense of a mainline run.

So I wondered if I had more space imagine how much more I could fit in! Well I do (will) have more space, 16x8ft so I set about adding a continuous run. While I was adding the extra run, making the platforms longer I also decided to add a passing loop to the through station. And What happened, is that I ran out of space!

So I had to have a rethink about what I really wanted. And what I wanted was a biggish station, containers and a long long mainline, so if we expand the above plan so give just that we lose the maintenance yard and trough station to give,

Image

"The Plan" but it has always bugged me that the plan might be a compromise to far. So having finally managed to draw plan 15 I decided to expand this, and after a few hours work I came up with this,

Image

Colour Code -
Red/Yellow = Main up and down lines
Maroon = passing loop
Navy = bi-directional loop exit
purple = storage loops under the station
green = goods area
light blue = other platforms.

But again I've been unable to fit a long mainline run in. Instead I've doubled the visible part of the return loop and the navy track to the left is now bi-directional that is to say a train can exit the loops in either direction. The extra space has also allowed for longer sidings in the yard and longer platforms. I've also added a passing loop to the through station. This allows for slow trains to be passed.

I'm glad I got an excuse to revisit the inspiration of "The plan" but in the end I think I have made the right choice in going for a mainline run at the expense of extra operational areas. But I thought it was interesting to explore, a little, the thought process around the planning of this layout.

Oh and feel free to comment on any of this plans.
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My other layout with progress http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=18394

locoworks
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Re: The Plan (Updated)

Postby locoworks » Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:31 pm

so what are your inclines like?? assuming where the red green and yellow meet top ( ish ) middle is low? the x's and y's also need to cross each other under the station/terminus? so from this junction to the terminus does the track have to climb TWO lots of clearance heights in 1/4 of a lap? it would help if you could put +25mm or +1 inch or minus whatever at the appropriate places to help clarify. in OO i would think you need atleast 3 inches rail top to rail top to allow for a trackbed?? maybe more? so i'm seeing the plan as needing a 6 inch rise in height in 1/4 of a lap, maybe less considering where the x's and y's eventually cross under the terminus? which may be quite steep??

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S_Jay
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Re: The Plan (Updated)

Postby S_Jay » Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:11 pm

Hi Loco,

ok let me explain a little, The station is the highest point, from here the track drops to point x-x on the left is the mid point and only has to be low enough to go under the station. It can stay at that level until it emerges on the right-hand side on the inner most loop. Then that inner loop will need to drop down again to join to a hidden fiddle yard. Then stay at that point until emerging on the right-hand side at point y-y, where it can climb again until it reaches point x-x where we started.
The junction just before the left-hand x-x point is the climb upto the highest point and is the steepest, using Anyrail I work it out to be just over 1:42 climb.

You see all the gradients are in plain view that way they have the longest length and the gentlest gradients.

Hope that helps to explain :)
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My layout with no progress http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic.php?t=14866
My other layout with progress http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=18394

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pointstaken
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Re: The Plan (Updated)

Postby pointstaken » Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:34 pm

Will give you nice long runs, but how are you going to get to the centre to sort out derailments etc? Are you going to have a US-style duck-under or something of that nature. At 16' x 8' you will need access hatches, or have I missed some comment on this?

Dennis
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