HS II - Shunting with Kadees

[Admin4]

Fascinating, I do enjoy a little shunting

[Dad-1]

As a builder first and foremost what can you do with a normal finished layout.
Watch trains going around ? At least on a shunting layout you need to think
and plan ahead. I'm always running a few puzzles on this, great fun and keeps
what's remaining of my grey cells working !
This photo is because I've recently added a few more figures and put the traction
engine on the weigh bridge, but in addition was setting up several wagons that I
inherited with the now required Kadees. Here we have in the background H E Rugg
of Sherborne limited edition 'Dorset Scene' coal wagon.



Geoff T

[Dad-1]

Been playing - last big photo shoot 3 years ago.
Thought I'd add some eye candy.















SO much easier to play on than a multi board layout !!

Geoff T

[Dad-1]

Some HS-II video.
Really to show how what might seem a difficult loco is just one that needs specific track qualities.
Stutter free slow running means no Kadee glitches.
Please don't go to sleep, the slow running is for a reason !!

https://youtu.be/758biB-NZoM

Geoff T.

[Dad-1]

I had no idea into which group of threads I should put this.
So because the exercise was done on HSII I stuck it here, anyway it's over 6 months
since I last put any activity on HSII forward, but it's frequently in use, so why not ?

For many years there were few small sets of traction for yards, shunting layouts, or
private factory use. For anyone in the BR blue period we had 03, 04, 06 and 08 diesels,
some also done to cover the BR green period.

Now with two more quite recent releases, neither of which I've bought ...... Yet!! I thought
I'd try a traction test. Pertinent because I have 2 locos that I like, but tend to fall short
when trying to either push, or pull up to 6 braked BR goods wagons.
Why 'braked' ? Simply because to fully enjoy hands free shunting I believe Kadee couplers
are the thing to use. These need a level of resistance to work successfully that I obtain
by having brakes in the form of coarse sponge pads rubbing on the axles.
Here is the test rig of 8 wagons :-



Here are the locomotives under test :-



As expected the Ruston DS48 failed, it's obviously light and suffered wheel slip that prevented
it moving all 8 wagons - Perhaps quite prototypical ?

The other failure was the 0-4-0 Sentinel, again this is light and I've been looking carefully and
I think I can add some lead ballast, but that's for later. It usually works with 6 wagons though.

My 0-4-0 Peckett could manage to pull all 8, but did slip when pushing. This in all probability
due to my wagon brakes working at differing levels depending on direction.

To my surprise 'Katie', and I've not weighed to compare, but from Hatton's the (DJ) 0-4-0 Andrew
Barclay did manage all 8 in both directions.

Once we started with the 0-6-0 class, all worked the 8 without any real signs of distress.
The Kernow (DJ) 1361 Class is still prone to stalls - I'm certain this is due to excessive grease
on the axles where it picks up current as opposed to pick-up wipers.

My 0-6-0 Peckett is still awaiting a replacement 'Keeper Plate' where the pick-up wipers are
brittle and one broke off under subtle adjustment. Because this is has live frog pointwork the
fault didn't show.

The best in my test & opinion was the 0-6-0 Sentinel, pushed & pulled so easily you would never
realise the wagons were braked.

Always fun running different locomotives. I still keep looking at the Planetindustrials Kerr-Stuart
"Victory" and Rapido 0-6-0ST Hunslet. Oh and I do still use Blue Diesels, 03.04,06 & 08.

Don't you also love those little locos !! Well anyway I do !!!

Geoff T.

[Dad-1]

Managed to spend a few minutes down the shed this afternoon.
I have some small lead weights that have been stripped from an expensive curtain
hem weight cord. You can just squeeze one at each side & end of the 0-4-0 Sentinel
and these 4 weights have taken it from 108.75 gr to 118.98 gr a decent percentage
increase. I have no doubt this will now cope with any possible rake combination on HSII.

There is nowhere on the Ruston to add sufficient weight, at just 76.07 gr you can
understand it's limited traction. However it just adds another problem to solve, one
than should be possible to bypass, but a lot more thinking.

Geoff T.

[Phred]

I have to say, I'm quite fond of the little locos too. They look much more comfortable living on my small layout. I also value slow speed capability over fast, since I think it looks more realistic than having things whizzing round and round the board.

I have added weights to some of my wagons and trucks. Would that have the same effect (resistance) as sponge 'brakes'? Or do the two methods serve different purposes?

Also I notice you have removed the 'match truck' from your Ruston. I toyed with the the idea of doing the same, but I'm terrified of wrecking the thing as the 'plug' seems well and truly stuck in its socket.

[Dad-1]

Hi Phred,

It's so long ago that I bought my Ruston that I can't remember
taking the match truck off. All I recall is it was the first thing
I did. I knew it would work well without as the layouts it would
be used on were all live frog, so no insulated pieces to cause me
running problems and to be honest it's a little gem.
I probably wriggled it as I was pulling out and anyway it had to
be opened for adding a DCC chip.

What I did think about was getting a 'spare' plug & socket so I could
use the extended pick-up idea on one of my Hornby 06 locos. They
have the cheap flexible plastic chassis and stall on my loft layout
where I used Peco insulated streamline pointwork.

Geoff T.

[Bigmet]

...I have added weights to some of my wagons and trucks. Would that have the same effect (resistance) as sponge 'brakes'? Or do the two methods serve different purposes?...

Good questions.
Adding weight can be useful for stability, especially as train lengths and thus the force acting on the train increases. Having all wagons of similar weight per unit length is typically helpful in securing reliable running.
With respect to autocoupling of Kadee, extra inertia by addition of weight functions somewhat as a drag brake, such as sponge bearing on an axle, but it doesn't 'anchor' a single vehicle as effectively. It has the advantages of permanence (weight doesn't deteriorate, a drag will wear) and better performance if long trains are required, because addition of weight doesn't impair free rolling.

So this is a classic 'horses for courses' choice.
In a small shunting yard scenario with small locos limited for traction the drag method is better suited.
If the vehicles are both going to be shunted and operated in long trains, weight is preferable.

[Dad-1]

Hi Phred,

Bigmet's last 2 lines says it all.
with very free rolling stock the resistance of opening a Kadee is more than the energy
used to move it. If you drive into a wagon with some momentum you can couple up and
in that case the weight has an effect.
However at almost zero speed you frequently fail to couple up, just pushing that lone
wagon along. With brakes it has no free movement and weight as such has almost no
effect.
Sometimes when working one wagon it won't separate when uncoupling, but get the
extra drag of another wagon & it works fine.
The reason many people have trouble with Kadees is that it's a very fine balance of drag.
I even take my Kadees apart and weaken the head spring, leaving the jaw spring alone.
My shunting layouts all have specific stock assigned to THAT one layout alone

There is no way I'd try pulling a long line of stock with brakes. The majority of my stock
is very free running, and I operate with as light as I can within good reliable running. Then
I used to frequently run trains in excess of 50 wagons.

Loco though - simply add if you can. Those trials indicated no loco weights, here they are.

Ruston -76.07 gr
Sentinel 4 - Unweighted 108.75, Now weighted 118.98
Katie - 128.36
Peckett W4 - 129.68
Sentinel 6 - 141-49
1361 - 143.26
Peckett B2 -177.75

The higher the weight the greater the traction.

Geoff T.

[Phred]

Thank you both for that very useful information. I read your posts through at least twice and I can understand how it works now.

[Dad-1]

The longest video I've ever put on.
Broke the 15 minute barrier and had to change registration settings to get more time.

https://youtu.be/n1Rvv_3NAS0

I fear you may get bored before it's finished.
It proves how a shunting puzzle can eat time !!

Geoff T.

[Phred]

Excellent 'slow TV'. Very relaxing, especially when watched with a cup of coffee and a biscuit (or two ).

Lovely to see the little Ruston at work.

[Lofty]

The Ruston is a lovely little performer, nice video Geoff.

[Dad-1]

A few 'daft' minutes.
For over 3 years my little white metal kit built Hallingbury Tram has sat in a box.
After last weeks video of my Ruston working a full exercise I thought I'd see if this
even smaller loco could do one - no chance, but just a bit of fun.

https://youtu.be/ebMPYvEFOJc

Geoff T.