Green Frog Brewery - A Inglenook Shunting Layout

Post pictures and information about your own personal model railway layout that is under construction. Keep members up-to-date with what you are doing and discuss problems that you are having.
Dad-1
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Location: Dorset - A mile from West Bay.

Re: Green Frog Brewery - A Inglenook Shunting Layout

Post by Dad-1 »

Thanks Chops,

I've had one American asking why I had three magnets as it could be done with one.
He really had no idea of the compression used in the principal of compact shunting.
In just 4 foot long and 16 inches wide you can spend hours of fun with 9 wagons and
a small loco. No space for American sized Switchers, or long bogie freight wagons.

Done a little more today, so many small jobs to do. I've spent today making up a few
small signs. They would be black with white writing, but I can't achieve that on my
inkjet - using a 4 point print size, the white letters become too indistinct.

It must be about 3 minutes to 12, these people too lazy to use the steps.

Image

The end IS in sight - I have my binoculars alongside me.

Geoff T.
Dad-1
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Re: Green Frog Brewery - A Inglenook Shunting Layout

Post by Dad-1 »

Still sorting out this little courtyard garden in front of the brewery offices.
The lamp hole just been drilled

Image

Next lay on it's back and wire in. So many little jobs like this to do.
Another unusual view from above the lane bridge, Farmer waiting for
his daughter after school ended today to take her home on the tractor.

Image

I'm having fun again.
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Mountain
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Re: Green Frog Brewery - A Inglenook Shunting Layout

Post by Mountain »

Looks great. :)
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Lachute
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Re: Green Frog Brewery - A Inglenook Shunting Layout

Post by Lachute »

Image
Dad-1
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Re: Green Frog Brewery - A Inglenook Shunting Layout

Post by Dad-1 »

Not everything in the garden is coming up roses - so the saying goes.

Well they're not on Green Frog Brewery either.
I wrote earlier about the problems of spikes in the DCC signals on this small layout using small light
locomotives. I made up a circuit to quench the spikes, it was just two components, a Heavy duty
resistor and a small capacitor and it certainly got rid of the major control problems.

I've spent a lot of time fettling the wagons and Kadee couplers to work efficiently and reliably, an
essential on a pure shunting layout. I've been concerned by an unacceptable level of stalling locos.
To make certain it wasn't just one rogue loco I've been using several :- Bachmann 57XX, Heljan 1361,
Hornby Sentinel, Hornby Ruston and a Hornby 0-6-0 Peckett. ALL suffered irregular stalls.

Now the layout is very close to being fully finished I decided further deep investigation into stalls
using my new Hornby Peckett. I've come to the conclusion that the Frog Juicers are just not doing
what's required of them. The loco stalls are almost 100% where the switched frog areas join the main
track. A light loco at a crawl is not providing sufficient of a short circuit to switch the solenoid, and
even when switched doesn't seem to be securely switched.

The Gaugemaster control system the layout was designed for is not good as the floating throttle is so
unreliable you can't increase of reduce the speed with any degree of accuracy. It was therefore being
used by having it a set at a slow speed, just using the direction change button for the driving. This was
not helping in analysing the stalling problem. Today I replaced with a Hornby Select, for so many
distractors I will say this is a superb system for my application. Rather than crawl everywhere I was
able to fluctuate my working speeds. This showed that at a slightly increased momentum the locos
were running much more reliably, until I ran very slowly over the switching gaps.

I think I will now have to introduce a mechanical micro switch arrangement for the two points to
achieve the level of reliability that I have on the first shunting puzzle where all frog switching is
mechanical. This finer testing was not possible since May as inherited 'stuff' prevented me from
accessing the first layout which has been used for thorough testing of all the locomotives I've been
using locomotives.

Beware of Frog Juicers !!

Geoff T.
Dad-1
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Re: Green Frog Brewery - A Inglenook Shunting Layout

Post by Dad-1 »

I'm certain I can't be the only one who gets frustrated by finding what you want is no longer available.
This is a club layout and having a few Hornby Skaledale red phone boxes I wanted one for this. No longer
available, search all the usual traders, nothing. Have a look on Ebay, and I dislike Ebay !!
The second to last went for £13 !! No WAY, one was available and didn't seem to be getting much attention
so I had a dabble - I will never get drawn into a bidding war, but it went above what I was prepared to pay.

I then did an appeal to club members, a couple offered the Modelscene version. One from a member living
very close which I went round and collected. They come with no glazing ? however I could make that, but
although there was a moulded depression for the white panel that has the text telephone they don't have a
decal for it. I looked for a decal sheet I know I had 10 years, or more ago, no trace, but found a sheet of
white decal. It was a pain, but here is the result.

Image

There is less and less to do, I'm having to do those jobs put off because they were fiddly. Like adding a couple
of pendant lights under the canopy. In that last picture note how modern the 'blue' pool of light is !! Still I'm
trying to use what I already have.

Here is the full 48", or for you youngsters 1219 mm of the layout. Square inch for square inch you can't beat
something like this for either building, or playing trains.

Image

No people, stock, or vehicles - I'm supposed to be working not playing.

Geoff T.
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glencairn
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Re: Green Frog Brewery - A Inglenook Shunting Layout

Post by glencairn »

I hope there are some chocks under those barrels, otherwise they will roll onto the tracks.

A neat looking layout well done.

Glencairn
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manna
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Re: Green Frog Brewery - A Inglenook Shunting Layout

Post by manna »

G'Day Gents

48" is a lot quicker to build than 20'+, but both are a lot of fun. Congratulations, looks great. :D :D

manna
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GeraldH
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Re: Green Frog Brewery - A Inglenook Shunting Layout

Post by GeraldH »

Great work. I love the notice on the level crossing gate. You must have a better printer than me!
Gerald H - BNR Correspondent :-)

My layout: http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... hp?t=28854
Dad-1
Posts: 7337
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:05 pm
Location: Dorset - A mile from West Bay.

Re: Green Frog Brewery - A Inglenook Shunting Layout

Post by Dad-1 »

Hi GeraldH,

Thanks guys for the comments.

The problem is usually coaxing the printer to go below 8 point print !! Once done you may
find it works O.K, I say that because mine is not a particularly good printer. I once managed
to reduce to 3 point, but too small to work with, and couldn't get there again anyway !

Geoff T.
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Bufferstop
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Re: Green Frog Brewery - A Inglenook Shunting Layout

Post by Bufferstop »

Printers, ink jets in particular can be the most exasperating things. Once you get below 8 point the size of the print head nozzles becomes significant when you try to create a character in the matrix. A change of 1 point to the "leading" (interline spacing) can make the difference between a line of print and a strip of gibberish, then it's all down to the quality of the driver software, a quick and dirty bit of code, probably lifted from a similar printer can defy all attempts to get a decent print.
Growing old, can't avoid it. Growing up, forget it!
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Dad-1
Posts: 7337
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:05 pm
Location: Dorset - A mile from West Bay.

Re: Green Frog Brewery - A Inglenook Shunting Layout

Post by Dad-1 »

After several months of procrastinating I have at last got around to replacing the
Frog Juicers with mechanically operated micro-switches. Both in place as I write this
although the wiring will have to wait until tomorrow. One going in :-

Image

On this layout frog juicers have been an absolute disaster. First the spikes in the AC wave form
from introducing short circuits was confusing the DCC signals so much my small locomotives
wouldn't run, stops, jerks, all sorts of odd behaviour.
A snubber, quench, or whatever you may want to call it was added to reduce the spikes. This
had things running, but not at all well. Frequently the various small locomotives would stall
on the interface track joint between the normal track circuit and the switched frog sections.
In addition there were some odd stalls for which I could find no logical reason. On one stall
at one of these interfaces the locomotive went 'dead', knowing stalls can blow an address off
a locomotive decoder I re-addressed and it worked again !

The questions I know some will ask - What decoders were involved, and what DCC system I use.
The answer is various - Decoders from Hornby; Zimo; Lenz, Bachmann. Control systems from
Digitrax, Hornby, Gaugemaster. The decoder that had it's address corrupted was a Zimo

Locomotives, well too many to list.

The assortment of locomotives were often taken to my shunting layout because there were times when
I though they must be at fault. However each time on the other layout they behaved perfectly.

Obviously until the micro-switches are wired in and the frog juicers removed some doubts will remain
as to why the Green Frog Brewery layout is such a dog. I can see no other logical reason as my HS-2
and this are exactly the same layout although in reverse, one right handed, the other left handed.
HS2 has always been used with mechanical frog switching !!

Fingers crossed until the final proof testing !!
Dad-1
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Location: Dorset - A mile from West Bay.

Re: Green Frog Brewery - A Inglenook Shunting Layout

Post by Dad-1 »

Proof Testing "Perfect".
All sorts of niggly little stalls gone. Not only have the frog juicers been removed, but
I've disconnected the snubber circuit as well.

When Flashbang says keep away from frog juicers take notice ! I know that in some
circumstances they do work without creating problems with a DCC signal, but why
take the risk. Sorting this has taken so long and been very frustrating. The answer has
been easy and cheap, microswitches 5 for £2 !!!

Geoff T.
Dad-1
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Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:05 pm
Location: Dorset - A mile from West Bay.

Re: Green Frog Brewery - A Inglenook Shunting Layout

Post by Dad-1 »

100% running !! No stalls since removal of the frog juicers.
Any other hesitations are from driver errors of moving before re-coupling, or just not
paying sufficient attention.

https://youtu.be/qnqmvTkUTus

Geoff T.
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glencairn
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Re: Green Frog Brewery - A Inglenook Shunting Layout

Post by glencairn »

'Inglenook' at its best. Lovely looking layout and well presented.

Thanks for showing, Geoff.

Glencairn
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I Cannot Afford the Luxury of a Negative Thought
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