Back to N...Under construction. Building Bridges.

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0121modeller
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Re: Back to N...Under construction. Its ALIVE!

Post by 0121modeller »

The last 2 photo's of that rail bridge & abutments is a great example of modular design construction :D

In real life, there are some bridges beyond repair / poor structural condition, so occasionally a bridge may need to be replaced by a more modern design of girder bridge or a re-enforced concrete type.

In model form , removal of the actual bridge is ideally also advantagous for many reasons ; scenics & railwork below the bridge or accidental damage of the model bridge can be more easily repaired / replaced / painted on a separate workbench.

In the case of the modular abutments, height & skew angle can be slightly adusted to suit, so to start with each of abutments (mounted on thier own 6mm ply base) are best descretely being screwed down (hence 6mm ply base) rather than glueing straight to baseboard, so you can always change your mind on the position of modulars to suit , without risk of damage to either the model / surrounding models or rail tracks.

Excellent inspirational work on the bridge building Zunnan, I look forward to your next bridge building project :D ..., though just a bog standard plate girder ? ... can i suggest adding a cantilevered paraphet with the angled "T" stiffeners supporting paraphet (like the example in brighton road, balsall heath) ? http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... 73#p219099

Dave.
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Zunnan
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Re: Back to N...Under construction. Its ALIVE!

Post by Zunnan »

0121modeller wrote:...though just a bog standard plate girder ? ... can i suggest adding a cantilevered paraphet with the angled "T" stiffeners supporting paraphet (like the example in brighton road, balsall heath) ?

Dave.
Be careful what you wish for! :mrgreen:

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You remember me pointing out the Kestrel water tower kit has a very nice moulding that could represent a plate girder? Well, I joined the two pieces together with a piece of 'T' section plastruct to give me a useful length girder....then your post got the cranial juices flowing, and I'm not one to decline a challenge!

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Plastruct, narrow 'C' and 'Z' section...

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I stripped the lip from one edge of the narrow 'C' section and glued them together. Can you guess what it is yet?

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I've gone into detail my method of making Plastruct girders elsewhere, so won't repeat myself here unless necessary. The top section was no different to previous incarnations, although the top and bottom lip had to be added first because I have built this plain side out (for reasons to be shown in a later posting)

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And a crude mock up of the skew that this bridge will be built on. The original plan has this as a road bridge, but I'm currently thinking disused trackbed due to the girder design being more typical of a railway bridge.

I'm actually quite surprised at just how easy the basic girder has been to make. Of course, theres a fair amount of work to carry out adding in the parapet stiffening and also flatting back the micro 'T' section I have used to face the parapet front. I plan on punching a rivet pattern into some aluminium duct tape and laying the riveted strips onto the raised remains because this is a prominant feature of the real thing. This is really the only difficult aspect of modelling this type of bridge that i can forsee, my initial plan was to rivet some copper tape, so if the plastic frame with aluminium overlay doesn't work, it is likely that I will try using the copper.
Last edited by Zunnan on Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Back to N...Under construction. Its ALIVE!

Post by 0121modeller »

Zunnan, thats a great start & an inspirational tutorial so far :D
I really had to take a deep breath & restrain myself from posting OTT to this chapter of your layout thread ! :lol:

On a serious note, the use of smallest plastruct "Z" & "C" profiles are key componants & the same as I've used for my 4mm scale bridge builds, but I've yet to start on an N gauge bridge.
As for any rivet detail, slaters do an A4 size sheet embossed with varied rivet sizes, though copper tape is worth a try as its ideally thin & easily embossed, but process of embossing may curl it & make application problematic.

One other thing of importance I feel is worth a mention, is the behavioural delayed reaction over time of the liquid poly / plastic weld (lets just refer to it as plastic weld). Basically I found that on a butt "L" type join of flat styrene componants on my paraphet angled themselves inward in a few weeks.
This was due to our natural inclination to apply more plastic weld to inner-most of join as to minimise the effect of melt of embossed /raised profile on outer. I applied a little to much to inside butt to form "L" joining, therefore delayed capillary/melt reaction resulted in my paraphets leaning inwards to a slight angle. The using of Z & C profiles overcame this problem in most cases, but also note the innermost of styrene profiles are themselves at a very slight angle.

Mark (southern boy), A great book I have myself & I'd reccomend to yourself & anyone else modelling bridges is; Bridges for modellers by L.V.Wood ISBN 0-86093-226-5 , its sadly out of print at the moment, but still found second hand. It has great detail photo's, various designs, drawn diagrams & measurements of both model & prototype :D

The possible inclusion of a disused line as to include that bridge for this project is another great modelling idea Zunnan,...(now restraining myself with difficulty :oops: ) :lol:

Dave.
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SouthernBoy
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Re: Back to N...Under construction. Its ALIVE!

Post by SouthernBoy »

Thanks Zunnan, that's both helpful and inspiring, I'll be keeping an eye on how the build goes (plus the rest of your layout of course!)

0121 - thanks about the book. I found your photo-thread on bridges useful too.
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Zunnan
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Re: Back to N...Under construction. Its ALIVE!

Post by Zunnan »

Building the abutments is turning out to be quite the challenge, mostly because of the awkward skew that I have decided to inflict upon it. I think it is needed though, otherwise this section of track is going to be a straight section of line sandwiched between two 90 degree over bridges. The skew is intended soley to break up this squared off look.

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As with the small viaduct on the 00 colliery layout, I started with a very basic ply sub structure to get the skew angle right before committing anything to plasticard.

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I began by shaping a template out of 9mm 'C' section. This will form the basis of the angles at the faceted end of the abutment as well as becoming reinforcement and the top surface of the abutment directly below the girders.

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I then 'skinned' the template using plasticard of an adequate height. 37mm in this case with a 3mm gap between bedstone and girder with all edges mitred to give nice crisp corners to the brickwork.

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Once the supporting section of the abutment was completed, I turned my attention to producing the buttresses and parapets, and in this case have a slight step in the brickwork separating the buttress and parapet segments. Some additional decorative brickwork may yet adorn these pieces, I am undecided. Once the excess on the front edge is trimmed to the correct height, these assemblies will be ready to have a capping stone built up and fitted in place.

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Owing to the skew angle, I observed the structure of several bridge abutments in the Birmingham area, and the main common feature I noticed with all of the bridges that weren't built on a 90 degree crossing is that the abutment where the angle is significantly over 90 degrees are faceted, constructed almost as a butress in some cases such as the Summer Lane bridge in Erdington, so that the bedstone supporting the girder in this location is fitted as a 90 degree piece of masonry, or very close to that. It has been trying to get these angles right which has been a source of problems and several rebuilds during this bridge build so far, but I think that this form is now pretty generic for a (Midlands) cantilevered plate girder bridge built on a skewed angle. Regarding the buttress/parapet wall, a number that I have observed do not have the girder recessed into the brickwork and it is the design of these that the bridge leans towards more than others, having said that, it would still be relatively easy to alter the buttresses to represent this other type.

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As can be seen, the girder sits a couple of mm above the stepped abutment. Each corner of the girder (once mounted to the trackbed) will have feet constructed which will seat it properly on to the bedstones, again a typical feature of many bridges of this type; but is in no means a compulsory feature. I've never built a bridge with this detail, so thought that its time I did one. :lol:

Now on the to do list is to build the other matching abutment, get the wing walls configured correctly to the form that the embankments will take, knock up all of the dressing stonework and bedstones, build the other side of the bridges girder (which I have yet to purchase another Kestrel water tower kit to butcher into), and to figure a way of adding all the rivet detail to the girder surface. As I build the other abutment it will be easier to recognise the photo worthy points in its construction, so will add in/edit this post to include them over the weekend as I continue the build rather than to sift through photos of me fumbling about trying to get the first abutment anywhere near a reasonable representation. A seperate post will be made to show how I produce the bedstones though as this in itself has a few steps.

Edit ~ additional stages in the abutment construction included into this post.
Last edited by Zunnan on Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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GROTLAND
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Re: Back to N...Under construction. Building Bridges.

Post by GROTLAND »

Blimey! really impressive constructions you're doing these days! Your skills are getting better and better . Hard to believe you've butchered water towers to build that bridge.....Rivet monster grrrrrrrrrrrr.

more to come and I'll be happy.
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Re: Back to N...Under construction. Building Bridges.

Post by SouthernBoy »

Great little masterclass, I'm soaking it up :)
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Re: Back to N...Under construction. Building Bridges.

Post by Zunnan »

I've edited in an extra few steps in the abutment construction so that now it doesn't just jump straight from ply skeleton to unpainted abutment. The next stage in construction is a relatively small detail, but it is one which features on the majority of girder bridges, and just looks odd when it is missing; the bedstones.

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I start by masking the area that the bedstones will be sited using electricians insulation tape. Care is taken to ensure that the tape follows the mortar course rather than the middle of a brick, and therefore the bedstone looks to be laid with the bricks rather than a blob plastered over them. In 00 this is more important because the coarse is much more obvious, but you still notice it in N gauge as well when you look closely.

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Revell 'Plasto' is then caked roughly onto the unmasked areas, I do this roughly because even when filed down it can leave quite natural marks and indentations to otherwise smooth 'stone'. It is at this stage that the use of insulation becomes apparent; 'Plasto' contains solvents which melt the plastic in the same manner as plastic weld type glues, so the filler literally bonds itself with the plastic. However, the filler doesn't react with the tape at all, so when its dried you can just peel off the tape and leave a ragged edge to the 'masonry'.

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Once the filler has had a few hours to thoroughly set, I then file down the surface with the masking left in place. There are two reasons for leaving the masking on at this point. First, it protects the brickwork from the file. Secondly, it is thick enough to leave a very slight overhang when the insulating tape is removed, and this helps the bedstone to stand out when it is primered and later painted. As already mentioned, the manner in which the tape is removed can have a profound effect on the final appearance of the work. If the tape is pulled off following filing it will leave a broken 'aged' edge, if you first run a sharp blade along the lines of the masking you get a much crisper edge. Different files will also leave different finishes to the stonework, in this case a coarse nail buffer was used to leave a rough but flat finish.

Next on the to do list is to manufacture 4 feet for the girders to sit on, and the capping stones. I was going to use the Wills 00 gauge capping stones, but these are a bit too short and wide to use so something bespoke is required. I also still need another water tower so that I can make up the other girder, but overall its starting to look more complete ~

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Getting there...slowly!
Last edited by Zunnan on Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Back to N...Under construction. Building Bridges.

Post by SouthernBoy »

I'm learning all the time here ... I hadn't even heard of (or noticed) 'bedstones' before your posts on bridges :shock:

Thanks for taking the time to post pictures/comments :)
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Re: Back to N...Under construction. Building Bridges.

Post by Zunnan »

Extremely cruel closeup time!

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I have made the feet that site the girder in place on the parapet using micro 'T' section glued together in multiples; pairs to fix to the girder and triplicate to fix to the 'bedstones'. This was done by literally sticking them side by side on a piece of masking tape and flooding the join with Mek-Pak and letting the join solidify for a while.

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When fitted to their respective parts and the glue given chance to solidify enough to work further on, the inside edge of the feet was carved to shape with a scalpel.

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With the feet now in place the girder can only sit correctly on the abutment at the required height and in the required location. The parapets also have a very basic capping applied, nothing ornate just a simple slab of concrete. I hasten to add that this build is by no means at all based on a specific prototype, it is just a meld of basic generic features to get the feel for the real thing without overloading on too much detail on such a small model.
0121modeller wrote: Details vary, but generally most bridge designs have a separate paraphet , mounted on the main side girder, this is often cantilevered from main girder, so you often see angled "T " stiffeners fixed to the gussets & plate sections.

Note the underside of this "beauty" has cross girders spanning under 2 tracks , notice the "jack arches" to give strength , modelled easily by curling plasticard brick around a thick pencil (or similar thickness) . This one is in Balsall heath, & there used to be a brick arch bridge instead, & also site of train station "Brighton Road" , now just a freight & diversion route . In a referance book i have , it shows there to be a brick arch bridge in 1923 that was later replaced with this metallic one after widening of the roadway.
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And an image of how a real cantilevered plate girder bridge appears from below (photo borrowed from 0121modellers 'Inspirations for model bridges' thread). This view shows the jack arches that I intend on attempting to model on this bridge build project, the model will be sited in close proximity to the edge of the baseboard they will be clearly viewable from certain angles.

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Primered and ready to paint up! If only I had the materials to finish off the girders...roll on pay day! :lol:
Last edited by Zunnan on Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Back to N...Under construction. Building Bridges.

Post by Terrier »

Cracking job on the girder bridge and supports chap, very good to see the progress of this project from the start. :)
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Re: Back to N...Under construction. Building Bridges.

Post by champion »

Yes the time and effort put into detail is a site to see,very good and thanks for sharing.

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Re: Back to N...Under construction. Building Bridges.

Post by Zunnan »

They say mistakes are the best way to learn...well...

I've been trialling ways of producing jack arches in N Gauge and have struck on a simple method of constructing a plastruct framework from small and medium 'H' section and inserting slightly oversized strips of plasticard brick into the frame and then soaking the plasticard with Mek-Pak to melt the surface of the plastic and resolidify to hold the arches shape. This has worked a treat, sort of...as the glue caused some sections of arches to split at the apex but from below the split isn't too apparent, so I would deem this an overall success.

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So, wheres the mistake?

The skew angle I made the jack arches to is in the opposite direction to the skew of the rest of the bridge, so the arches are effectively a mirror image of how they are needed :roll: Back to the drawing board...

On a plus note, I have built up the final girder, fitted the parapet supports and have flatted down some of the raised detail.

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Oh, and I've also painted the abutments. Just need to sort those pesky jack arches, get those girders painted and weather it all down a bit.
Last edited by Zunnan on Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Back to N...Under construction. Building Bridges.

Post by SouthernBoy »

To paraphrase the Graham Farish slogan: 'A Masterpiece in Miniature'

I just looked up 'Jack Arches' so I know what to expect next. Very inspirational and educational this thread - thanks :)
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Re: Back to N...Under construction. Building Bridges.

Post by 0121modeller »

Fantastic modelling there Zunnan, I think the reverse assembly is a minor glitch/common mistake & is to be expected with skews & anything mirrored / modelled upside down, (a similar mistake comes to mind when fitting my own carpet :( ) but as you say "trial & error" & we learn from this, but the general idea is coming along as it should I reckon, as its basically the same method as I built my old jack arched underside bridge in 00 scale.

On re-building/assembling back to the point of progress so far, I'm assuming a piece of made to measure 6mm ply will fit inbetween width of those longer girders (& the arches facing the other way) & each of the cross girders will have will have a 2mm x 2mm plastruct "spacers" to allow for clearance of the "humps" of arches for track bed ?... easy in 4mm/00 to do this, but much harder in 2mm/N gauge I think as height limitation maybe against us in this particular case ;... I'll explain;

... thickness (height) of underside structure feature (in this case the jack arches) must not exceed 5mm height which includes arch "hump & spacers" , & added on top of this is the "decking" thickness for the rail tracks/roadway, so, assuming you're using no more than 6mm thick ply for deck (so the both main girder innersides are still visable by at least 3mm, (real size 18")... am I correct in guessing those water tower girders are 12mm high ? , If so, it will be very testing to layer/fit all this in , But, I believe one way or another it can be done in N with excellent looking results whilst retaining strength..., as the decking does'nt have to be 6mm or even 4mm plywood, but 0.80" thickness plasticard,.. by using this has 2 other advantages & puposes that I'll go into more detail & suggest / show you what I mean in a couple of days during our next meeting.... as I'm getting rather carried away again here on this part of your layout thread mate :oops: :mrgreen:

Cheers :D

Dave.
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Scratchbuilt & kit built grappler claw cranes ; - http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/Fo ... =6&t=36342
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