What the heck is going on.

[Bigmet]

And putting the purchase price of RTR model railway goods in perspective, among this morning's advertising, collectable wristwatches. There was what must be a 'Lima' equivalent, at only £2,000: most were in five figures. And all they do is tell the time...

[ChrisGreaves]

... at only £2,000: most were in five figures. And all they do is tell the time...

A bargain.
Most kids nowadays can't read the time off a clock-face, and kids cost way more than 2,000 to raise!
Cheers, Chris

[Richard08]

And putting the purchase price of RTR model railway goods in perspective, among this morning's advertising, collectable wristwatches. There was what must be a 'Lima' equivalent, at only £2,000: most were in five figures. And all they do is tell the time...

Equally £2000 will get you quite a nice used car that serves a practical purpose (essential if a rural type), there's a world of difference between desiring something and needing something. Train sets are definitely a discretionary expense and therefore very much more price sensitive. Asking top dollar when many peoples disposable income is effectively negative isn't going to work. Unless you go the extra mile like Accurascale have with their new 92 - eye-wateringly expensive but still cheaper than some far less sophisticated models - to get your share of a shrinking pie! Rightly or wrongly, Hornby (and some of the others) are not doing themselves any favours lately and acquiring themselves an unfavorable reputation in the process, even in the trade (those effectively 'banned' by Hornby). Generating shareholder value is all well and good - until you run out of customers. Out of general interest, here's Hornby's 2022 accounts : https://www.investegate.co.uk/hornby-pl ... 00030292P/

[JasonR]

In response to the OP, I agree that current models have too much fragile detail, and as for prices...!
My newest loco is a preowned Heljan DP2, my other eight locos range from 15 to over 50 years old.
Most of my track will be carefully chosen reclaimed or preowned items too.
All my other rolling stock (26 wagons, 9 coaches) are all preowned items. I simply do not have the cash to spend on new locos. There is one new release I really like, but I cannot justify spending almost £200 on it. Maybe after Uni?

@Richard08 - Thanks for the link. Interesting reading (I'm doing business studies, and I may borrow that as an example for a future module).

Most kids nowadays can't read the time off a clock face...

A rather sweeping and grossly inaccurate statement sir.
I, and my peers certainly can.

[b308]

even in the trade (those effectively 'banned' by Hornby).

I wonder if you are referring to TT:120 with that statement? If so it's been discussed in many places and general consensus is that Hornby are actually doing the retailers a favour by shouldering all the risk for a new scale launch. Of course some anti Hornby retailers and modellers will argue otherwise, rightly or wrongly! In view of the investment Hornby has made over the last 5 years in TT:120 and it's launch just now I feel that 2023 accounts will be more indicative of their performance.

[Bigmet]

...I simply do not have the cash to spend on new locos. There is one new release I really like, but I cannot justify spending almost £200 on it. Maybe after Uni? ...

That sounds about right. Tertiary education at first degree is all about learning to prioritise: academic study, networking, 'how to live' &c. ; so that you emerge a well armed tiger, ready to prosper in whatever you choose to undertake next. (I think I managed two wagon kits in my time, still got them!)
ATB with your studies.

even in the trade (those effectively 'banned' by Hornby).

I wonder if you are referring to TT:120 with that statement?...

I would think that's a reference to the 'Tier' system Hornby have introduced, which selectively limits volumes to retailers. Effectively encouraging them to diversify their supply base against Hornby.

[End2end]

Most kids nowadays can't read the time off a clock face...

A rather sweeping and grossly inaccurate statement sir.
I, and my peers certainly can.

OK. Now try it without looking at a phone.
Thanks
End2end

[Richard08]

even in the trade (those effectively 'banned' by Hornby).

I wonder if you are referring to TT:120 with that statement?

No, that is directed at grumpiness form dealers who have been told they won't get much
, if any, stock from Hornby and have had to cancel customer orders as a result.

[Mountain]

I don't understand the price rise moaning, everything has gone up, not just model railways, as production costs in China have gone up! Why the anger when it's not just model railways that have suffered? Has "quality" declined, or is that more likely that social media has made it easier to complain and the issues are a lot more visible than they were? Like many of us i can remember the days of Triang and Hornby Dublo, the Triang locos back then were bomb proof (still are!) but crude as anything, my experiences with HD were not as good, however, I found them unreliable compared to Triang's but nowadays HD is held up as the bastion of quality, but not from what I remember! Honestly speaking we had things too good in the recent past and now expect that to continue, the truth is it won't, it was unsustainable. I do think people need to be more realistic in their demands.

Go and look at the toy trainsets,most of which are also made in China and have to pass far stricter rules than model railways do to get a balanced idea to how much model railways have gone up in comparisson.
Sure, both have gone up but the toy market only went up by inflation. Model railways went up to levels way beyond inflation because the market leaders found that people were willing to pay more. I remember the surveys that went out to ask about out buying habbits. Not long after prices doubled and this was before Chinese workers demaded more pay where prices went up again. Yet the toy market hardly moved in price increases.
I have noticed how the other hobbies also went up, many of which were at some point either owned by or had links to our hobby, but those with no connection remained the same. Example. A hobby shop which dealt in a vast range of hobbies were selling some items the same but at different prices. I bought a small box of rubberized litchen in the same colour as their model railway display sold them for a third of the price and there was double the amount in the box, because the litchen I bought was intended for flower arranging.
As soon as the product is classed as "Model Railways" (Or a model based hobby) look at the price difference!

[centenary]

Think people are overlooking not only have production costs increase in China but, the cost of a container from China to Europe abslutely skyrocketed and made any comments about the cost of inflation redundant. The cost went from around $2000 to over $10,000. Add in chip shortage and you have a perfect storm for price increases.

But equally, take a look at the huge presentation boxes locos now sell in. Ive seen a few reviews of the Accurascale class 92 recently. That comes with an A5 size multi page glossy brochure on the actual class itself. Production costs for the brochure probably adds £10 and the presentation box another £5-£10. Sturdy box, ok although some may say it's OTT but personally, I couldnt be bothered about a multipage glossy brochure on the loco class.

[Mountain]

Talking about shipping. Recently at least a thousand ships have been stranded worldwide due to an expected cyber attack on their computers. Here in the UK we blame it on leaving the EU but the reality is, if the shipping is not getting here (As we seem to be importing most of everything these days, it is going to have a noticable effect).

(Eddited post above to shorten and correct little errors. This tablet is annoying! ).

[b308]

Go and look at the toy trainsets,most of which are also made in China and have to pass far stricter rules than model railways do to get a balanced idea to how much model railways have gone up in comparisson.

Would you mind explaining that, Mountain, especially the "far stricter rules" bit? What sort of "toy train sets"? Those cheap plastic ones with battery power and plastic track? They don't compare with any sort of genuine model railway stuff and their equivalent back in the 50s would have been the basic Hornby Tinplate 0 scale stuff which wasn't all that cheap and whilst the genuine model railway stuff was more expensive, that's just as it is today.

[End2end]

not only have production costs increase in China but, the cost of a container from China to Europe abslutely skyrocketed and made any comments about the cost of inflation redundant. The cost went from around $2000 to over $10,000.

The big question is WHY?
We seem to ship weapons to Ukraine quickly and cheaply enough to fight another proxy war for the WEF / NATO.
Thanks
End2end

[Richard08]

not only have production costs increase in China but, the cost of a container from China to Europe abslutely skyrocketed and made any comments about the cost of inflation redundant. The cost went from around $2000 to over $10,000.

The big question is WHY?

End2end

One of the reasons is that ships now tend to go to Rotterdam etc and goods are then transhipped to the UK, whereas the ship would likely have called at a UK port before, adding time and cost. Needless to say the mountain of red tape the UK has created for itself has to be paid for too, estimated at £13bn a year.

[Mountain]

Go and look at the toy trainsets,most of which are also made in China and have to pass far stricter rules than model railways do to get a balanced idea to how much model railways have gone up in comparisson.

Would you mind explaining that, Mountain, especially the "far stricter rules" bit? What sort of "toy train sets"? Those cheap plastic ones with battery power and plastic track? They don't compare with any sort of genuine model railway stuff and their equivalent back in the 50s would have been the basic Hornby Tinplate 0 scale stuff which wasn't all that cheap and whilst the genuine model railway stuff was more expensive, that's just as it is today.

Going back in my mid 20's I looked into making toy-like models (As part of one of the many ideas I had at the time) so I went on a government run business course. I had several different ideas as I was unemployed and full of plans... None of which came to anything due to unmovable obsticles called government rules but that is another story!
But with this idea I went to look into the possibility and though this was a good 25 years ago or more, oneneeded to be a legal expert to understand some of the regulations. If I wanted to make products to sell to all ages, the rules came in restricting everything from what paint one could use (Had to be edible if product was for children) to glues to the materials used...Their size incase they werw swollowed... Their shape that they had no sharp edges. It was so complex and technical that I was advised don't. I was told that the way round it was to make models designed for adult use only and one avoids nearly all those regulations as one can even have sharp edges if the product is intended for sale to adults.