Layout design - Driving myself nuts 31/8

[barney121e]

So been exploring various options to move forward.

First i tested all my locos on 1st radius curves, and most seem happy. They are old Lima trains and a Hornby one, so think i can get away with using 1st radius curves.

I am wondering if instead of a fiddle yard that i just have the whole board scenic. With this in mind i have come across the following plans. They are train set like, but looking for views on the following plans. The second plan is very similar to one above which seems to flow a little better. Just want something simple to put together hence why the plans are that way. I do have future plans but a lot of planning will be needed and to just have something to use and learn different skills is my target.

Any thoughts much appreciated.

[Bufferstop]

The only problem with a wholly scenic layout is the need to bring on and remove extra stock. when I found that with more and more stock on the layout and endless shunting necessary for anything to move I decided that the only prototype I could possibly claim was a steam centre on a heritage line, so that's what it became. I still needed some method of getting complete trains on and off, that's when "The Thing" was born. Take a look here The Thing It has four tracks can be rotated 180 degrees, lifted off its stand and lowered from layout height down to a comfortable working height, and if it's getting in the way, trundled into one of the bedrooms until needed.
Another solution I've seen is to have a main station at the back of the layout with a series of storage loops at the front treated scenically as a marshalling yard, the main line running through the centre of storage and shunting tracks is a valid scene not often modelled.

[barney121e]

Having looked at the second plan all day, and then reading your comments, it made sense to adjust the original to the second plan but with a fiddle yard.

[End2end]

and to just have something to use and learn different skills is my target.

I think you need to make a distinction barney.
Will this be your main / only layout or a simple layout to develop skills away from your main layout?
I only mention it as each layout design gets progressively more expensive, taking away the budget from your main proposed / envisioned layout if there is to be one.
The cost of points alone soon starts to mount up.

More than one design looks more like it would be a main layout rather than a 'test and grow your skills' build for example.
Just something to consider.

And Rule Number 1 still overrides everything I've posted of course.
Thanks
End2end

[barney121e]

and to just have something to use and learn different skills is my target.

I think you need to make a distinction barney.
Will this be your main / only layout or a simple layout to develop skills away from your main layout?
I only mention it as each layout design gets progressively more expensive, taking away the budget from your main proposed / envisioned layout if there is to be one.
The cost of points alone soon starts to mount up.

More than one design looks more like it would be a main layout rather than a 'test and grow your skills' build for example.
Just something to consider.

And Rule Number 1 still overrides everything I've posted of course.
Thanks
End2end

This will be my only layout. I do have thoughts on a future plan but the layout will be similar to this one but need to research further for trackplan etc. This layout will let me learn the skills i need and also to have buildings which will work on both this and the future layout.

Will start a layout topic soon, just need to finalise things.

Thanks for everyone's help.

[barney121e]

Not forgotten about a layout thread, just exploring a last option but will be a few days. Although whichever way i go, it will have a Highland Railway feel to it.

[End2end]

Take your time barney.
A mistake spotted at this early stage will mean not having to dig up any part of a layout to fix it later on.
Thanks
End2end

[barney121e]

Take your time barney.
A mistake spotted at this early stage will mean not having to dig up any part of a layout to fix it later on.
Thanks
End2end

Hi @End2end

A long while ago you suggested the following plan would work, just wondering if that is still the case.

Also open to views form others.

Cheers

[End2end]

I don't see why not.
'Rule Number 1' and all that.

You could swap out the 2 straights for a single straight in the top right hand corner siding to save money.
OR buy long(er) straights and cut them to fit where you have multiple straights, especially in the sidings.

I've added red lines to indicate where you can easily replace and use longer straight pieces of track.
Or use longer straight pieces of track and cut them down to size.
All saving you money hopefully.

You could go even further and use ALL long straights everywhere, cut down to size if you really wanted to.
Meaning less fishplate connectors, less DCC track power bus droppers (if you're going to use DCC) etc.

Personally I wouldn't do that.
I'd leave the rest of the layout as is and just replace the red lines I've shown. This will keep the dimensions of the track layout more exact to manufacturers specifications.

Don't forget to buy a track gauge if you don't have one yet. This will help keep the track (and those dead end sidings) paralell.
Cheap as chips off the bay - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171534433491 ... R7bChpavYQ
Thanks
End2end

[barney121e]

Can i just check something. If i go down the DCC route, i am sure i need droppers at the red circle positions, but would i need droppers at the blue circles?

[End2end]

I'll have to let one of our more experienced members answer your question directly.

But ideally (not including the points / blue circles until your original question is answered) all other track pieces should have DCC droppers.
This means not relying on the fishplates for electrical conductivity.

I think (needs confirmation/ I can't remember if) Set Track dimension LIVE frog points are now available.
My 0-4-0's hate the Set Track dead frog points.
Thanks
End2end

[Richard08]

But ideally (not including the points / blue circles until your original question is answered) all other track pieces should have DCC droppers.
This means not relying on the fishplates for electrical conductivity.

That's somewhat over the top. Relying on fishplates is fine - unless you have a truly massive layout. Feeds are only needed where the electricity cannot get there due to points vees (whatever type of vee/frog) creating a break and the exit rail isn't fed 'from the other end' - the object being that all track is powered all the time whatever the points are up to. Depending on the type of vee/frog it's worth checking what the instructions with the points say about DCC. Taking Peco Streamline electrofrog as an example, it's worth cutting the link wires under the points and bonding the closure rails (i.e. blades) to their adjacent stock rails. This avoids shorts from wheel backs touching the opposite blade and means the current does not require a clean physical connection between blade and stock rail, thus any panting and decorating or ballasting won't effect electrical operation. I think the new Peco Unifrog points come DCC ready, but don't quote me. Insulfrog (?) points will do the current switching, so unless you have a reverse-loop, the points can switch the current, may still benefit from the rail bonding. Although a bit more complicated, elctrofrog (or unifrog?) points are much better bet - DCC can do crazy stuff if there is an interruption due to a short wheelbase engine passing over a 'dead' vee/frog.

[barney121e]

But ideally (not including the points / blue circles until your original question is answered) all other track pieces should have DCC droppers.
This means not relying on the fishplates for electrical conductivity.

That's somewhat over the top. Relying on fishplates is fine - unless you have a truly massive layout. Feeds are only needed where the electricity cannot get there due to points vees (whatever type of vee/frog) creating a break and the exit rail isn't fed 'from the other end' - the object being that all track is powered all the time whatever the points are up to. Depending on the type of vee/frog it's worth checking what the instructions with the points say about DCC. Taking Peco Streamline electrofrog as an example, it's worth cutting the link wires under the points and bonding the closure rails (i.e. blades) to their adjacent stock rails. This avoids shorts from wheel backs touching the opposite blade and means the current does not require a clean physical connection between blade and stock rail, thus any panting and decorating or ballasting won't effect electrical operation. I think the new Peco Unifrog points come DCC ready, but don't quote me. Insulfrog (?) points will do the current switching, so unless you have a reverse-loop, the points can switch the current, may still benefit from the rail bonding. Although a bit more complicated, elctrofrog (or unifrog?) points are much better bet - DCC can do crazy stuff if there is an interruption due to a short wheelbase engine passing over a 'dead' vee/frog.

All my points are insulfrog, Does that make a difference with the blue circles? Do i need power at those points?

[centenary]

All my points are insulfrog, Does that make a difference with the blue circles? Do i need power at those points?

You cant add power to the frog on insulfrog points. Power only to the running rails.

[Richard08]

All my points are insulfrog, Does that make a difference with the blue circles? Do i need power at those points?

Insulfrog points switch the current for you, so setting the route switches the power 'on' too. However, to take advantage of DDC 'side effects' like lighting all rails should be powered all the time too, so wire as per electrofrog, which you seem to have done. I haven't gone through all of you diagram in detail, but assuming a circle can indicate a connection to one rail then you are not far out, nothing's jumping out anyway.