A well detailed model does not necessarily have increased fragility - the problem currently is the obsession Hornby in particular have for the use of plastic for many parts which any fit for purpose assessment would expect to be in metal. I do wonder if the crazy list price of the M7 in particular (now £155.99) is down to the amount of far too fragile plastic parts used and the cost of production due to assembly breakages- would it really be that much more expensive to fit a turned brass whistle and metal pipework between the driving wheels and bogie truck.GeraldH wrote:I must confess that I'm struggling to see the need for models with even higher levels of detail, fragility and cost.
Sprung buffers are a step forward, but NEM coupler pockets are of very limited use if they are not fitted to NEM 352 mechanisms, limiting the choice of couplers to Kadees, and then, really, only on curves of 24" or greater radius.Boksonay wrote:Absolutely! The Deltic will include a fully detailed bufferbeam, as well as NEM sockets for your choice of coupler! (and metal sprung buffers of course)allan wrote:In 00 scale, the real turn-off, for me, is the tension lock coupler. The "other" Europeans dealt with this issue 25 years ago, with NEM coupler mechanisms, a solution that is quite appropriate to 00 scale, but one that has not yet been fully embraced. Being able to run 00 scale locos and rolling stock buffer-to- buffer, out of the box, has remained an elusive dream, but that's how the prototype ran. OK, so three link chains are unmanageable, but there are a good number of NEM compatible couplers readily available - Kadees #17 to 20 being just one example.
What is the alternative though? Ultimately, most modellers will use the supplied mini tension lock, and using a NEM socket on the loco allow those who prefer alternatives easy swap / replacement.allan wrote:Sprung buffers are a step forward, but NEM coupler pockets are of very limited use if they are not fitted to NEM 352 mechanisms, limiting the choice of couplers to Kadees, and then, really, only on curves of 24" or greater radius.Boksonay wrote:Absolutely! The Deltic will include a fully detailed bufferbeam, as well as NEM sockets for your choice of coupler! (and metal sprung buffers of course)allan wrote:In 00 scale, the real turn-off, for me, is the tension lock coupler. The "other" Europeans dealt with this issue 25 years ago, with NEM coupler mechanisms, a solution that is quite appropriate to 00 scale, but one that has not yet been fully embraced. Being able to run 00 scale locos and rolling stock buffer-to- buffer, out of the box, has remained an elusive dream, but that's how the prototype ran. OK, so three link chains are unmanageable, but there are a good number of NEM compatible couplers readily available - Kadees #17 to 20 being just one example.
The best alternative is to "raise the bar", and fit full NEM 352 mechanisms which will allow true close coupling. As I've previously noted, non-British European manufacturers have been doing this since 1995. Have a look at some European models (Roco, Fleischmann or Brawa, for example), to see what a difference this makes - buffer to buffer running, but still able to negotiate absurdly tight curves and to remain compatible with existing model rolling stock.Boksonay wrote:What is the alternative though? Ultimately, most modellers will use the supplied mini tension lock, and using a NEM socket on the loco allow those who prefer alternatives easy swap / replacement.allan wrote:Sprung buffers are a step forward, but NEM coupler pockets are of very limited use if they are not fitted to NEM 352 mechanisms, limiting the choice of couplers to Kadees, and then, really, only on curves of 24" or greater radius.Boksonay wrote:
Absolutely! The Deltic will include a fully detailed bufferbeam, as well as NEM sockets for your choice of coupler! (and metal sprung buffers of course)
Aha! I see the confusion - my apologies, while we are of course fitting a standard NEM socket, it will absolutely be mounted on a NEM352 (or what we call Kinematic) system. We actually shop close coupling bars with some of our wagons (Like our Irish Tara Mines Wagon)allan wrote:The best alternative is to "raise the bar", and fit full NEM 352 mechanisms which will allow true close coupling. As I've previously noted, non-British European manufacturers have been doing this since 1995. Have a look at some European models (Roco, Fleischmann or Brawa, for example), to see what a difference this makes - buffer to buffer running, but still able to negotiate absurdly tight curves and to remain compatible with existing model rolling stock.Boksonay wrote:What is the alternative though? Ultimately, most modellers will use the supplied mini tension lock, and using a NEM socket on the loco allow those who prefer alternatives easy swap / replacement.allan wrote:
Sprung buffers are a step forward, but NEM coupler pockets are of very limited use if they are not fitted to NEM 352 mechanisms, limiting the choice of couplers to Kadees, and then, really, only on curves of 24" or greater radius.
Do note that a rigid NEM coupler box will not allow use of some couplers: Flieschmann Profis, and Roco couplers become a rigid bar when coupled, like the Hornby close couplers (which are a poor copy of the Roco couplers).
No 'raising the bar' possible, Hornby have already gone this route since about 2004! Applies to their Brush type 2 (class 30/31) and EE type 4 (class 50) at least, and Hornby won themselves nothing but trouble with it. This in my opinion because the majority of OO customers persist with the fitted coupler which is the miniature tension lock, and this coupler not only fails to provided a re-centering action but typically tangles, and then derailments occur.allan wrote:...The best alternative is to "raise the bar", and fit full NEM 352 mechanisms which will allow true close coupling. As I've previously noted, non-British European manufacturers have been doing this since 1995. Have a look at some European models (Roco, Fleischmann or Brawa, for example), to see what a difference this makes - buffer to buffer running, but still able to negotiate absurdly tight curves and to remain compatible with existing model rolling stock...
You might care to look up the 'Brian Kirby' magnetic uncoupling mod. which may be applied to the Bachmann design miniature tension lock (and possibly others if they have non-ferromagnetic hooks, but beware compatibility issues.)boxbrownie wrote:Funnily enough having just decided to go back to 4mm from 7mm I have been looking around at coupler options, and to be honest it hasn’t got much better than when I last modelled 4mm 20 years ago, weighing it all up and considering my new layout will be nothing special just a roundy roundy with some shunting sidings I pretty much have chosen to use normal mini hook and loop tension couplers, these seem to be a safe alternative, for sure no delayed coupling but at least I can have a few clear acetate strips in the sidings to facilitate uncoupling where needed.
Congratulations! That puts you at the top of the class!Boksonay wrote:Aha! I see the confusion - my apologies, while we are of course fitting a standard NEM socket, it will absolutely be mounted on a NEM352 (or what we call Kinematic) system. We actually shop close coupling bars with some of our wagons (Like our Irish Tara Mines Wagon)
Looked at those just now but surely they just operate the same way as any tension lock but using a magnet rather than the ramp, there doesn’t seem to be any metho of “delaying” the coupling once uncoupled?Bigmet wrote: You might care to look up the 'Brian Kirby' magnetic uncoupling mod. which may be applied to the Bachmann design miniature tension lock (and possibly others if they have non-ferromagnetic hooks, but beware compatibility issues.)
RTR OO couplings are a mess to be brutally frank, but we don't really want to clutter up this thread with all that!
How I would like it if a manufacturer dared to state that because of the limitations that set track imposes, in order that model 'X' can faithfully represent the prototype it will require [insert number here] minimum radius for operation. (Specific to the class 55, the relief afforded by OO's gauge inaccuracy allows this minimum radius to be circa 30"/750mm. For comparison the more accurate 4mm practise of those using EM and P4 requires circa 48"/1200mm minimum.)allan wrote:...The future of 00 scale depends on better models, and the Deltic, a very large express passenger loco, while popular, is unsuited to the 4x6' trainset... There is now incentive to explore other options.