HS II - Shunting with Kadees

[Ironduke]

Which way does the polarity run? If it's crossways..

Yes, it's Crossways. See https://kadee.com/htmbord/page309.htm

[Dad-1]

Perhaps I'm over my 100 day virus ..... after 120 days, or more !!
Feeling rough not the only reason this has been sitting pending further
work. The layout varies between Derek's place and mine and recently
been residing over the valley.
I've got back and have wired in droppers off every piece of rail, the shortest
just 6 sleepers long, as well as off both point stock rails. We have the frog
polarity wires currently taped over underneath as we may well try to run without
switched frog power, just relying on switch blade contact. However if this should
prove unsatisfactory we can easily add switching without lifting track.

Testing the final track layout and location, we will need to do some fine adjustment
to wagon Kadees as we are still having trouble getting the non-coupling shunting
to function reliably. Dropping and picking up wagons no problem.



Just off the end of the works loading platform we have a coal drop where hopper
discharge can deposit directly into the boiler room cellar.



About to add balsa wood to raise the ground level to, or above sleeper height in much
of the yard area, no fancy main line ballasting needed here, ash & clinker upto and
above sleepers !!

We already have the elevated roadway with two separate under routes, one for rail, the
other a roadway ...... but that's over the valley at Derek's. Now we're looking at what
buildings we make to fill the scene.

Geoff T.

[Dad-1]

What I don't seem to have shown is the 'Box' that is the layout. This has a back scene space
with a double fold lid that will fully enclose for storage & transportation.
Here it is lid down !!



It's this sort of design that results in a slow build !!

Geoff T.

[TimberSurf]

That's a very impressive coffin!
But not as impressive as the doll's house!

[Dad-1]

Hi Dave,

yes you do, but these fine stainless wires are across a manufacturers rail gap.
All you need is a very fine razor saw that will go into the existing gap and saw
through the link wire. This will then isolate the frog area from switch blades.
Then just attach the trailing wire we have taped under the board into a power
bus fed polarity switch.
We want to run without switching as it's our intention to operate the two points
by a home made manual rod mechanism.

I'm finding the Kadees a little 'sticky' and have tonight ordered some Kadee dry
graphite lubricant. At the moment they prefer a jerky change of direction and
I want to do gently at low .... very low speed.

Back to play shunting, maximum track for 11 wagons, we have 9 on the layout.
The headshunt will take just 4 and this is where the loco is attached to the train,
5 wagons sit by the works platform, and 3 in each of the other two sidings. with
spare space for two just wagons it can be laborously difficult. But then I like shunting

Geoff T.

[Dad-1]

Going along better now .....

Last evening I painted all the track, do you remember that prat that was insistent that it looked fine
without painting and then lectured us all on how HIS building work was superior to everyone else ?
Ahh those were the days !!
I also managed to uncouple and then loose shunt wagons, yet the train stayed together when pulled
out over the magnets. Being rather pleased I then laid some fine ballast over the white plastic magnet
covers to hide their whereabouts, as when used by club members on Tuesday the locations were so
obvious the drivers were just about managing. Having said that clipped in stop blocks - Bufferstops
were shunted off the end !! Next time we allow some inexperienced drivers they will be pinned and
glued down !

Sorry no photos, but Photobucket was being such a pain last evening I gave up.

Geoff T.

[m.levin]

Going along better now .....

Last evening I painted all the track, do you remember that prat that was insistent that it looked fine
without painting and then lectured us all on how HIS building work was superior to everyone else ?
Ahh those were the days !!

Geoff T.

Seen so many of those types come and go, then return again

[Dad-1]

he he, not this one martin - Permanent Ban ......

Anyway I got into P.B and here is a picture, I've forgotten exactly what it was to show, other than my
wiring with a dropper to EVERY piece of track including one 6 sleepers long.



Then here it was showing the two vacant places that have to be used to shuffle into the exact sequence
required. We will have a card draw to decide what will have to go where, but that's for later.



Now this is the latest 'fancy' idea. We are using welding rod to activate the points and the 'lever' will be
a road vehicle resting on it's wheels that you just move back & forth as required. I used a petrol pump
on Castell Mawr and it works fine, but a little too much friction for my liking during movement. Here
the vehicle wheels will take the load. You only need between 3.5 - 4.0 mm of movement to change the
points.



That's my love trying new ideas that I've not seen done before, mind you I bet others have done this at
sometime.

Geoff T.

[Dad-1]

That last picture may not have explained the welding rod point change system
we're using on this layout. Here is a picture with the supporting braces in place
on the underside. The supports are split so the rodding is user friendly and can
be stripped out and, or serviced as may be required in the future.



A sad fact, but I decided to use some old screw stock from the 1990's and although
they were of the type and diameter I wanted they were too long. Well, a slitting disc
will remove the unwanted protrusion that will be destined to be hidden under ballast
anyway.
Note these points have had their tie-bars cut back as it really spoils the look of them.
It's not a problem for the future as I never expect to strip this down to re-use and
even if I did they would be automated in such a way that I wouldn't need the unsightly
protrusions.



Geoff T.

[Bufferstop]

Disguised point levers, now there's a novel one, certainly avoids having a row of little bobbles sticking out of the front of the box.

[Dad-1]

Hi Bufferston,

It'll allow one to drive vehicles as well as trains. Required items on order.

Currently the intention is to use point blade contact rather than switched frogs,
but I'm looking at fitting polarity switches activated from a spur off the main
operating rods. Why ? just to see if it can be done easily enough and have there
as a built in possible up-date program .

Geoff T.

[Bufferstop]

On my pushrods, mainly some plastic covered steel rods from a set of magazine case binders, any etxra bits, extensions and adjusters are held in place by the brass bits out of choc block connectors. They even come in three different sizes to cope with different diameter rods.

[Dad-1]

I thought I had it working reliably so time for a video.
Well just take care when working with animals, children and model railways !!
They never seem to do exactly what you want ......These uncouplings were
going so well until the camera came out.

https://youtu.be/VL5EkNoYoiY

Certainly confident we've cracked the major problems as a result more scenic
work ready to be undertaken.

Geoff T.

[Dad-1]

No follow-up video yet but hey I have what on the surface look like reliable and predictable
coupling, un-coupling, loose shunt mode and pulls across the magnets without the train
breaking at some interface.
Sadly not without much frustrating experimenting and a rather brutal 'fix'. My fix is to pin
the wagon brakes on. Small U.K wagons are light and usually very free rolling, enough for
even plastic wheeled wagons to be drawn along the track by the magnets. We know the
boards are flat and level and will have a small bulls-eye spirit level built in for keeping level
in any locations where we'll be running the layout.

Lubricating the Kadees with their graphite dust helps to loosen all movements, but is not
the answer. In fact during the lubricating process I noted one knuckle was not moving as
it should and replaced with another, my assumption is a slightly defective coupling spring.

Experiments with light, or heavy wagons made no difference so decided that mass was
having no influence, even a heavy wagon could also creep when pulled by the magnets in
either direction. Some may say that our magnets are too powerful, but to get the consistent
and positive movement we require for at least 99% reliability that is a basic requirement.

Last evening I think I cracked it by adding a brass wire brake onto one axle of an unweighted
Bachmann LMS 3 plank wagon. Initially this was so tight that the wheels were not even turning,
but a minor adjustment allowed the wheels to turn while still exerting a considerable drag.
This worked very well, so temporary sponge brakes were fitted to all the other 9 wagons with
the result that EVERYTHING worked fine, even the loose shunting mode.

As the stock for this shunting puzzle is bespoke, in as much will stay dedicated to this layout
the additional drag will not be a problem as it would on a layout where train lengths can be up
to 60 wagons.

A solution that may not suit everyone.

Geoff T.

[Dad-1]

Been out .... Now can show the brake !



It's a small length of brass aerofoil wire superglued into a hole drilled
in the wagon chassis and partially wrapped around one axle. The wagon
will barely roll after a small push, a similar push on another wagon has it
rolling for at least a metre.

Removal easy by treating with de-bonder, taking braking off can be done
by just bending free, but once adjusted to the correct pressure I shall
leave well alone !!

Now to do the same to every other Kadee equipped wagon.

Geoff T.