Back to N...Under construction. Building Bridges.

Post pictures and information about your own personal model railway layout that is under construction. Keep members up-to-date with what you are doing and discuss problems that you are having.
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SR/ScR Fan
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Re: Back to N...Now under construction!

Post by SR/ScR Fan »

pointstaken wrote: But seriously, looks a highly presentable piece of carpentry - I'm sure some of us on here would like to aspire to that level of skill.

Dennis
I certainly do aspire to be that skilled! Keep it up, i want to see more of this.

Cheers,

Rob
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Zunnan
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Re: Back to N...Now under construction!

Post by Zunnan »

Its been a bit of a while since I updated this thread...and I'm not going to give a layout update just yet because theres a lot of unfinished bits and pieces going on. I'll do a proper update when I have certain aspects actually completed. These include the control panel, storage loop support system using extruded aluminium and the station area. For now I'll tease you all with the beginnings of my full length HAA rake in readiness for the Dapol class 58s in Red Stripe livery that are delayed until the end of August. These are the Peco HAAs which I bought for less than you can get the Farish ones in bargain bins! :mrgreen:

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Guess which ones are complete repaints. I'll give you a clue in that theres 2 repaints (out of 6 that needed repainting) in this picure that started their lives in Coal Sector livery and that when I tried to strip the Coal Sector branding off the hopper sides it stripped the silver off and left the branding so I've had to repaint the cradle AND the hoppers! Just to mask the differences between the repaints and the originals, I decided to weather them too. The streaking is correct for hoppers loaded at older collieries which used a rubber wheeled drive system to propel the empties into the loading screens, and was a bit of a bugger to do in N Gauge!

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Back in the late '70s and early '80s, Peaks were surprisingly common on MGR workings. They do look good at the front end of a rake, even if I say so myself.
Last edited by Zunnan on Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Back to N...Now under construction!

Post by 50035 Ark Royal »

Nice 46 it does look good on the front of that MGR train.I like Peaks they have plenty of charachter.Very good weathering on the HAA's although the 46 looks too clean.I never saw one that clean so do you intend to weather the peak to match the wagons?
thanks
Ian
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Re: Back to N...Now under construction!

Post by Zunnan »

Everything will be weathered eventually to some degree or another. The only reason I did the HAAs was because I had to try to preserve the TOPS data panels when I repainted the hoppers from Coal Sector livery. The silver paint around the Sector marking lifted before the marking did, so I ended up with yellow/black diamonds on unpainted hopper side! :| Trying to match silver paint is nigh on impossible so I just masked off the data panels and airbrushed over the whole body with a generic steel colour while the cradles were off being painted Railfreight Red which left the hoppers horribly patchy. A judicial weathering was really the only remedy to fix them so they have become the first stock to see the air brush, but they won't be the last. I think the locos can go to Mercig for a proper job though! :wink:

The HAAs will end up running behind the Dapol 58 when the Red Stripe ones are finally released, and probably the Dapol 56 when that model surfaces so I can run them back into the late '70s as well as mid '80s up to '90. The 46 was bought for NE/SW workings, but as 45s were used commonly to bring coal trains to the Woodhead route for passage over the Pennines behind a brace of 76s as well as around the Nottinghamshire coalfield, I thought it more suitable to pose with them than an 8F or an IC class 47 :lol:
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Re: Back to N...Now under construction!

Post by Zunnan »

Going back to the first page, while the layout was still in the planning stage, I mentioned to m8internet that I had a cunning plan in producing my upper storage loops. The method used is seldom used in the modelling world but it is common as muck in the construction industry, although the methods and materials are understandably very different due to the forces involved in 1:1 scale building.

The loop uses a completely normal 9mm ply trackbed/baseboard which is 'pizzacuttered' to open out the baseboard surface to give access both inside and outside to the lower level storage loop. This effectively turns the baseboard here into one large 270 degree curved bridge. Owing to the tight clearance requirements below the baseboard level, a conventional framework is completely out of the question to retain the shallow 1:60 gradient (it actually works out at 1:56.8 due to slight changes in the location of gradient transitions and lengths). Of course, a 9mm thick ply trackbed that is just 165mm (6 1/2") wide and curved through 270 degrees is going to need substantial support, but with no allowance afforded to a framework below the trackbed, I quickly sided with a framework built as part of the side of the trackbed which dictated that the material be very thin and also rigid. Wood is out of the question, its too thick and too much fuss to bend to the required radii at a thickness that would afford any support at all. Plastic is also a complete none starter due to the flexibility of thin materials, so I turned to metal. To keep things lightweight I opted for aluminium, and to fix sturdily enough to the ply it would need to fix to the underside of the board so it would have to be an 'L' section. Rolling/pressing aluminium to this shape isn't ideal, so I reached the final decision of using extruded aluminium.

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Naturally, metal in this shape isn't flexible, and my needs dictated that it be fixed to an inside radius that would fit inside 1st radius N Gauge setrack (9" radius) and provide clearance for lengthy stock which reduced the required radius to 8 1/4". Simple solution, slot the bottom lip of the 'L' section into 1" sections. Please note, at 10pm the neighbours do NOT appreciate the use of a 3mm grinding disc to cut dozens of slots into extruded aluminium. I wore ear defenders and STILL ended up with ringing in my ears!

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With several feet of 'L' section so treated, I then drilled out and countersunk each and every lip that had been cut so that I could go into overkill with 10mm long panel screws to fix the aluminium to the ply base. Where the rails of the lower level loop pass outside the bounds of the upper loop, I also formed several flat beams which fixed into place allowing me to bridge over the offending rails to fit the supports. These supports are simply formed with 6mm threaded rod, held in place with nuts and washers, which affords extremely fine tuning to the height, and then holds it all in place more than firmly.

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So, how does the finished product look?

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And how strong is it? Well, I can push down on the apex of the board between supports and just about deflect it by 1-2mm with almost my full bodyweight. Lets hops all those screws can hold it in place if the ply ever decides to warp upwards, because it sure as heck ain't going to warp downwards...oh, wait...the nuts holding it in place are fixed at the top of the wood, so it can't go upwards either! :lol:

An added bonus to the design (completely by accident I hasten to add) is that the framework itself forms a barrier to stop derailed trains from falling over the edge too, which is a nice touch as it means I don't have to come up with something else to serve that purpose.
Last edited by Zunnan on Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Back to N...Under construction. Storage sorted!

Post by SouthernBoy »

Now that Zunnan, is one of the most seriously impressive solutions to any railway modelling conundrum I've come across. An engineering marvel in miniature, and elegant too :)

Like the rest of your work - it's also neatly executed and well presented. Totally top-rated all the way by me :)
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Re: Back to N...Under construction. Storage sorted!

Post by Ben A »

Very nicely engineered! Thanks for posting.

cheers

Ben A.
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Re: Back to N...Under construction. Storage sorted!

Post by ElDavo »

Very neat and tidy piece of work. Must have taken a bit of time cutting all the slots and getting the smooth shape. Worth the effort though. Hope you don't have a major derailment on the lower level 'cos that's going to be a fiddle to sort out.

Cheers
Dave
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Re: Back to N...Under construction. Storage sorted!

Post by champion »

Top notch and most neat and tidy.
well done and thanks for sharing.

richard.
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Re: Back to N...Under construction. Storage sorted!

Post by Zunnan »

Thanks for the comments, I think I managed to over engineer it even if I do say so myself! :lol:

I've induced a couple of derailments on the lower loops, set up by blatting a rake of VGAs into the tightest loop at full pelt so that they derail into vehicles in the outer two loops. Its honestly not that bad to pick up the mess, the upper trackbed is only 16cm wide so the furthest you have to reach in is 8cm from either side which is about the length of my index finger. 50mm vertical clearance is more than sufficient, all I need to remember is to remove all of the derailed vehicles rather than to attempt a re-railing of anything thats still on its wheels.

Its Aliiiive!

The beating heart of the layout is a compact A4 sized control panel, and is now completely wired up for the main running lines. A lot of DPDT switches are involved so that the loops are independantly supplied from either controller and not by the points setting. This helps in that the points can be set into an isolated and occupied loop and a train run in but hits dead track and stops before colliding with the contents. It is without doubt the most difficult set of wiring that I have undertaken outside of work, compounded mostly by the need to reverse the polarity of the loops because they form reverse curves which means that wiring up the loops has a fit when it comes to colour coding.

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I'm a telephone engineer and when I lift the lid of this thing even I get confused! Somehow it all works, and no matter how I set the points I don't get a short circuit! Loose wire ends lead on to not yet laid track, basically the entire steel terminal and the point motors on the scenic section of the main lines which haven't even been bought yet although the switches are fixed in place ready for the big day.

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Lid shut, much less confusing! Although those point switches for the lower storage loop are back to front at the moment...hence the clear labelling (to me at least) on everything. I'll have to try and get that sorted out when I wire in the point motors on the upper loops. :lol:
Last edited by Zunnan on Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Back to N...Under construction. Its ALIVE!

Post by Michael Thornberry »

Hello Zunnan,
Very impressive modelling, the concept and engineering design is motivational and the wiring is a "cut-above" the usual BT standard :roll: :lol: Love the Lay-out, mate,
Kind Regards,
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Re: Back to N...Under construction. Its ALIVE!

Post by 0121modeller »

Excellent work Zunnan, Nice & neat, so making any fault tracing / wiring modifications easier to do.

Dave.
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Re: Back to N...Under construction. Its ALIVE!

Post by SouthernBoy »

Hello Zunnan,

Slightly going off immediate topic here ... but for me your bridges really stand out as amongst the best I've seen modelled in N gauge (this layout and Canon Street).

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They have a certain authenticity/integrity - can you give any hints and tips about approach/construction ??

ie " ... a few years of building models in other scales has given me a new arsenal of tricks to employ when scratch building. Things like the bedstones, home made capping stones, even the way the butresses are built so that the girders slot into them rather than just rest on top of the abutments. "

I have a viaduct and a couple of bridges to build - I know at the end of the day it's down to observation of originals - but any tips which may save me having to work-out for myself what you may already know would be much appreciated :)

Thanks

Mark
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Re: Back to N...Under construction. Its ALIVE!

Post by Zunnan »

A little trick is to scale up certain details which would otherwise go unnoticed to make them stand out a bit more. By this I mean for example the tunnel mouth lining, which is done using 00 gauge brickwork both as the liner and as the face, both of these details are key to representing a tunnel, so I make them deliberately overscale. The parapet wall capping is also 00 gauge material, the real thing frequently uses quite large stonework so I exaggerated this, although the capping on top of the buttress' was carved from plasticard because nothing in 00 was the right size/shape to fit here. Very easy to do mind. Also, where possible I'll build them from their major component parts, ie: deck and abutments. This makes it easier to handle, work on and paint each piece before the final assembly.

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Its basically in the representation of certain detail. Small detail is all well and good, but from normal viewing distance the human eye can only see so much, so it is that which I concentrate on. I'll look at photographs of the real thing taken from a distance and base the model on what I can see in the photograph rather than what I can see when I'm standing 3ft away from the real thing. When you look closely at my bridges, you notice that they're very simple and lacking in their finer detail, I build them on the typical N Gauge 'broad brushstrokes' idea. Things like adding in bedstones to support girders and arches, the structure of girders and their abutments where they are supported, the way abutments are often butressed and that girder ends are often bricked in by the buttress etc, nothing more than the key ingredients. Get these right and it gives the right overall effect, which is all that I am after. None of my girders have any rivet detail, but to be honest I don't think they really need it in this scale. We'll see when I build the next bridge, which is going to be a bog standard plate girder. I'll do a start to finish of the construction of it and show how I do the bedstones and capping. I'm not quite as obsessive about bridges as Dave (0121modeller) is, but I do baulk when I see a quality exhibition layout whos Wills 'varigirder' bridges float in mid air between the abutments. Over complicating something can be just as bad as getting the design completely wrong IMHO, the only exception being lattice construction girders.
Last edited by Zunnan on Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Back to N...Under construction. Its ALIVE!

Post by SouthernBoy »

Thanks Zunnan, much appreciated and very helpful.

The use of some exaggerated features is particularly interesting.
Construction of separate 'key components' is a good tip (in fact I think it helps resolve a particular quandary I had).
I'll be keeping all this in mind for my own viaduct and two bridges, which I hope to start in the next few weeks.

A start-to-finish guide would be good too sometime :)

Thanks again,

Mark
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