Gremlins in my decoders!

[Peterm]

You've missed the bit where Suzie said "press 4 twenty times."

[abenn]

You've missed the bit where Suzie said "press 4 twenty times."

Actually she said press F4 I toggled the 4 (meaning the number 4 showing on the display) "at least 20 times". That was over 40 presses of the "4" button on the handset. I'm pretty sure I noticed the red LED on the command station blink once after 40 presses and, as I said, it's certainly done something to the command station -- hopefully a reset, as desired.

But I still have no lights They've been working correctly for several years without any intervention needed, and I know the LEDs are still functioning because they sometimes flash very briefly when I power up the command station.

[centenary]

You've missed the bit where Suzie said "press 4 twenty times."

Actually she said press F4 I toggled the 4 (meaning the number 4 showing on the display) "at least 20 times". That was over 40 presses of the "4" button on the handset. I'm pretty sure I noticed the red LED on the command station blink once after 40 presses and, as I said, it's certainly done something to the command station -- hopefully a reset, as desired.

But I still have no lights They've been working correctly for several years without any intervention needed, and I know the LEDs are still functioning because they sometimes flash very briefly when I power up the command station.

Can you try a loco on a piece of track with a different DCC base station? You need to figure out whether the issue is due to the command station or cv settings in the decoder.

If the locos came DCC fitted, the manufacturer may have set the cv values for the lights different to the decoder's default values. A decoder reset will return it to the decoder manufacturer's defaults not necessarily the cv values the loco manufactuerer set.

For a Dapol Imperium, the cvs and values for the lighting functions are CV33=1, CV34=4, CV35=119, CV36=64, CV39=16, CV40=32, CV49=32, CV50=32, CV51=0, CV53=32, CV54=32. Maybe try programming one of your locos with these values and see if any lights work?

[abenn]

Thanks Centenary. The decoders were all installed by me, and have been working correctly for several years until the lights stopped working after a few months of inactivity.

I'll check out the CV values that you've noted, one at a time, and see if any of them switch on the lights. I don't have another DCC base station, so can't test with that.

[Suzie]

It is worth checking that the command station speed step mode matches that in CV29 on the decoders. 14/27 step modes treats lighting commands differently to 28/126 step modes. On the Lenz command station you can select 27 (possibly labelled 14 but it is actually 27 in the recent firmware versions), 28 or 126 (will be labelled 128 but is actually 126) steps for each loco. On the decoders using CV29 you can select 14/27 or 28/126 (often just labelled as 14 or 28).

Generally you will want to use 126 step mode for everything since all modern decoders will support it, but there are some scenarios where people prefer a more limited number of steps.

The difference is that in 14/27 step mode the headlight command is sent with the speed in the same packet, but in 28 and 126 step modes the speed packets are sent separately to the lighting packet which contains the headlight control.

If pressing F0 to try and turn the headlight on and off makes the train speed up and slow down a tiny amount there is a mismatch between what the command station is sending and what the loco is expecting (command station is sending 27-step commands, loco is expecting 28-step or 126-step commands). Similarly if adjusting the speed faster by one step makes the headlights turn on or off the command station is sending 28-step commands and the loco is expecting 14-step or 27-step commands. If the lights stay off then the command station could be sending 128-step commands and the loco is expecting 14 or 27 step commands.

It is a complicated business because the defaults are not always the settings that you are most likely to want.

[abenn]

For a Dapol Imperium, the cvs and values for the lighting functions are CV33=1, CV34=4, CV35=119, CV36=64, CV39=16, CV40=32, CV49=32, CV50=32, CV51=0, CV53=32, CV54=32. Maybe try programming one of your locos with these values and see if any lights work?

I've tried each of those value in turn, and then all together. They made no noticeable difference to the running of the loco I was trying them on, and they didn't enable the lights.

It is worth checking that the command station speed step mode matches that in CV29 on the decoders. 14/27 step modes treats lighting commands differently to 28/126 step modes. On the Lenz command station you can select 27 (possibly labelled 14 but it is actually 27 in the recent firmware versions), 28 or 126 (will be labelled 128 but is actually 126) steps for each loco. On the decoders using CV29 you can select 14/27 or 28/126 (often just labelled as 14 or 28).

Generally you will want to use 126 step mode for everything since all modern decoders will support it, but there are some scenarios where people prefer a more limited number of steps.

The difference is that in 14/27 step mode the headlight command is sent with the speed in the same packet, but in 28 and 126 step modes the speed packets are sent separately to the lighting packet which contains the headlight control.

If pressing F0 to try and turn the headlight on and off makes the train speed up and slow down a tiny amount there is a mismatch between what the command station is sending and what the loco is expecting (command station is sending 27-step commands, loco is expecting 28-step or 126-step commands). Similarly if adjusting the speed faster by one step makes the headlights turn on or off the command station is sending 28-step commands and the loco is expecting 14-step or 27-step commands. If the lights stay off then the command station could be sending 128-step commands and the loco is expecting 14 or 27 step commands.

I've been using 28 steps all the while. Up until a couple of days ago I didnt' know that other steps were available, but after changing the battery in my command station I noticed that some locos had changed to 27 or 127 steps (but no lights), so I RESET them back to default after changing the battery, which gave me 28 steps. I haven't noticed any lights coming on when I increase the speed by 1 step, but I'll check and see what effect F0 has, then I'll have a look at CV29.

I note that you (and the manual) talk about "F0", "F4", etc.; do you mean just the "0" or "4" etc. buttons?

[centenary]

For a Dapol Imperium, the cvs and values for the lighting functions are CV33=1, CV34=4, CV35=119, CV36=64, CV39=16, CV40=32, CV49=32, CV50=32, CV51=0, CV53=32, CV54=32. Maybe try programming one of your locos with these values and see if any lights work?

I've tried each of those value in turn, and then all together. They made no noticeable difference to the running of the loco I was trying them on, and they didn't enable the lights.

It is worth checking that the command station speed step mode matches that in CV29 on the decoders. 14/27 step modes treats lighting commands differently to 28/126 step modes. On the Lenz command station you can select 27 (possibly labelled 14 but it is actually 27 in the recent firmware versions), 28 or 126 (will be labelled 128 but is actually 126) steps for each loco. On the decoders using CV29 you can select 14/27 or 28/126 (often just labelled as 14 or 28).

Generally you will want to use 126 step mode for everything since all modern decoders will support it, but there are some scenarios where people prefer a more limited number of steps.

The difference is that in 14/27 step mode the headlight command is sent with the speed in the same packet, but in 28 and 126 step modes the speed packets are sent separately to the lighting packet which contains the headlight control.

If pressing F0 to try and turn the headlight on and off makes the train speed up and slow down a tiny amount there is a mismatch between what the command station is sending and what the loco is expecting (command station is sending 27-step commands, loco is expecting 28-step or 126-step commands). Similarly if adjusting the speed faster by one step makes the headlights turn on or off the command station is sending 28-step commands and the loco is expecting 14-step or 27-step commands. If the lights stay off then the command station could be sending 128-step commands and the loco is expecting 14 or 27 step commands.

I've been using 28 steps all the while. Up until a couple of days ago I didnt' know that other steps were available, but after changing the battery in my command station I noticed that some locos had changed to 27 or 127 steps (but no lights), so I RESET them back to default after changing the battery, which gave me 28 steps. I haven't noticed any lights coming on when I increase the speed by 1 step, but I'll check and see what effect F0 has, then I'll have a look at CV29.

I note that you (and the manual) talk about "F0", "F4", etc.; do you mean just the "0" or "4" etc. buttons?

Sorry, Im not trying to teach you to suck eggs and presumably when you changed the cv's I posted, you tried pressing the function keys F0, F1, F3, F4, F5 and F6 rather than put the loco on the track and just drive? Im not familiar with your Lenz DCC unit but usually the 0, 1, 3, 4 etc keys will correspond with F0, F1 etc. If you didnt pressed F0, no headlight would come on even if the loco was driven in either direction.

You also need to ensure your Lenz system is set to Function Group 1 to enable function keys 1 to 0 to operate those functions. This is shown by a single vertical line on the left side of the Lenz display. If 2 or 3 vertical lines show then the key pad buttons 1 to 0 will operate functions 11 to 20 which means the lights will not be operated. Apologies if you know all this!

F0 should at the very least turn on headlights at one end where cv33 is set to a value of 1. If you press F0, does a light symbol display in the bottom left of the Lenz unit's display screen? It should do. If it doesnt, this indicates a problem with the Lenz unit.

Your best chance to resolve this issue is if you could try a loco with another DCC system (a friend, local club or shop) and cv33 set to 1 then press F0 to see if headlights come on one end. If they do, that suggests your problem is the Lenz system.

[abenn]

Thanks centenary, the more you can teach me the better! It's at least 10 years since I set the system up, and I do remember configuring something about the rail voltage, but apart from that I've never had to do any programming of the command unit or (apart from changing addresses) the decoders.

Your explanation that "0" is equivalent to "F0" and so-on is helpful. It's odd to me that all lights on my six locos disappeared at the same time, but the issue might simply be that I have never pressed the "0" button while the locos were running I'll check it out tomorrow.

[abenn]

HAPPY CHRISTMAS !

I've just pressed the "0" button while a loco was selected, and its lights came on. Tried another, and same thing! So part of what's strung this thread out for so long is that I didn't realise that F0 switched lights on and off, and when people referred to "F4" "F0" etc. they simply meant the "4" or "0" number buttons -- I was pressing "F" followed by the number

The initial cause of all six locos lights going off at the same time was probably something to do with the command station's battery. That issue has been resolved with a new battery, so thanks to everyone who contributed.

[centenary]

HAPPY CHRISTMAS !

I've just pressed the "0" button while a loco was selected, and its lights came on. Tried another, and same thing! So part of what's strung this thread out for so long is that I didn't realise that F0 switched lights on and off, and when people referred to "F4" "F0" etc. they simply meant the "4" or "0" number buttons -- I was pressing "F" followed by the number

The initial cause of all six locos lights going off at the same time was probably something to do with the command station's battery. That issue has been resolved with a new battery, so thanks to everyone who contributed.

Glad you got that sorted! If you dont have a Lenz 100 manual, DCC Concepts have a downloadable version that explains the 'function groups' and display indication that might help?

https://www.dccconcepts.com/manual/lenz ... nual-v3-6/

[abenn]

I have, and have read, the manual that I printed when I bought the set. But 'function groups' wasn't a search term I tried when looking for 'lights' Plus the manual tells you to press "F4", just like Suzie did in her post about resetting the command station, which confused me because there's an "F" button but no "F4" button.

[centenary]

I have, and have read, the manual that I printed when I bought the set. But 'function groups' wasn't a search term I tried when looking for 'lights' Plus the manual tells you to press "F4", just like Suzie did in her post about resetting the command station, which confused me because there's an "F" button but no "F4" button.

Yes, Lenz seem to have a confusing architecture (imho). While function F0, F1 etc are pretty much standard terminology across DCC, Lenz seem to also have a Function 'F' key that seems to allow the User to another level of functional groups. I can see why talking about Functions keys could cause a bit of confusion.

[Suzie]

Lenz were the first to market and hold the patent, so probably expected others to follow their example when making the patent freely available. They are still making kit that is very similar to the original while everyone else has moved on, and we think of the new entrants as being standard.

[Bigmet]

Lenz were the first to market and hold the patent, so probably expected others to follow their example when making the patent freely available. They are still making kit that is very similar to the original while everyone else has moved on, and we think of the new entrants as being standard.

This is nicely nostalgic for some of us! Lenz were a pioneer in control signal embedded in power for industrial applications, and the model railway application was developed from this. The user interface is very much like industrial equipment controllers of the 1970s, so for us old lags who used such things (my employers' preference was Allen-Bradley) it's a happy trip back to the time when we were allowed to make things happen: that's before we were handcuffed to desks, and younger people got to have all the fun.

[abenn]

Lenz were the first to market and hold the patent, so probably expected others to follow their example when making the patent freely available. They are still making kit that is very similar to the original while everyone else has moved on, and we think of the new entrants as being standard.

That's interesting, I didn't know that history. I first got into DCC about 10 years ago and Lenz is my first and only system, hence my lack of knowledge of the operation/notation of F buttons. Do the manufacturers that have 'moved on' offer extra or better features in their controllers, and have Lenz improved on their original equipment?