Radio control OO .

[Buelligan]

How did you get on with this in the end?

If I ever get around to having a garden layout, I’m thinking RC will be the way to go, to save trying to keep the track clean. My thinking was to have a few fixed sets of loco and coaches, using the internal space of the coaches for all the necessary electrical components, leaving just a couple of wires to go up to the motor, maybe using a small magnetic electrical connector to act as both power connector, and coupling. Could even look at wireless charging technology now, so that when the stock is not in use and stored in the shed or wherever, it charges simply by being parked in the right place.

[Bigmet]

How did you get on with this in the end? ...

Moved to N gauge, and I'd guess that RC is off the menu.

...If I ever get around to having a garden layout, I’m thinking RC will be the way to go, to save trying to keep the track clean...

Unfortunately, you definitely still have to clean the track in OO, and it is variably necessary up to 45mm gauge in my experience, depending on location. Between what comes out of little critter's backsides, falls off plants and trees, or is blown and splashed around by the weather, job 1 is inspect the line, remove obstacles. (A piece of hardboard on the end of a broomstick did the job for me most days.)

...RC... My thinking was to have a few fixed sets of loco and coaches, using the internal space of the coaches for all the necessary electrical components, leaving just a couple of wires to go up to the motor, maybe using a small magnetic electrical connector to act as both power connector, and coupling. Could even look at wireless charging technology now, so that when the stock is not in use and stored in the shed or wherever, it charges simply by being parked in the right place.

I would like to see a wifi based product , using addressed packets to send commands to receivers in vehicles; similar in concept to the DCC system's addressed commands conducted via the track to decoders in locos. (My garden is fully covered by the wifi router, I can have the laptop anywhere, never looses connection.)

Needs to be a small battery because sometimes the little 0-4-0T has to go off for works overhaul.The power design I therefore favour is power on all plain track, (points are dead rail, and use the track power to operate motors if required) to continuously recharge a compact battery with a duration of a couple of minutes. Pick up doesn't have to be perfect, because the battery is a 'stayalive'; and going this route also means we can stay with the well proven 12V motor system, which all our models have installed

But here's the rub: DCC works superbly outdoors (and indoors) already. I suspect this is the competitive obstacle that discourages the necessary development investment.

[Richard08]

But here's the rub: DCC works superbly outdoors (and indoors) already. I suspect this is the competitive obstacle that discourages the necessary development investment.

Revoelectronics (US?) do DCC R/C - the R/C receiver interfaces with the DCC decoder and appears to be suitably compact for small engines.

[Bigmet]

Revoelectronics (US?) do DCC R/C - the R/C receiver interfaces with the DCC decoder and appears to be suitably compact for small engines.

Thanks for that, good find.

For anyone interested 'Train Controller Revolution' is the best way to find the manufacturer, based in NJ USA. There is a UK agent 'FineScaleBrass' https://www.finescalebrass.co.uk/ , all the emphasis of this site is O gauge and up. There is mention of a 1.1A small receiver aimed at HO/OO but little information beyond that.

But the fundamentals sound useful, high frequency radio transmission of DCC signal, runs up to 100 loco addresses from a single transmitter, user chooses battery or track power. Being the cautious type, I will wait and see whether this has 'legs': if it is good enough to win wide uptake it could be the way to go...

[Bigmet]

And now Hornby with Bluetooth wifi running DCC. If correctly implemented this should be a winner.

[BananaRepublic]

And now Hornby with Bluetooth wifi running DCC. If correctly implemented this should be a winner.

Direct radio control of DCC decoders, using Bluetooth or even WiFi, isn’t a new idea and commercial products already exist.
BlueRail Trains have been selling a Bluetooth system in the USA for a number of years and now decoder manufacturer SoundTraxx have brought out the first of a series of Bluetooth fitted DCC sound decoders.
Hornby’s new HM DCC system appears to be remarkably similar.

The new Hornby HM7000 range of decoders are fitted with a socket, to make fitting a stay-alive module simply plug and play.
With direct radio carrying the control signals over Bluetooth and stay-alive modules fitted to most, or all decoders, most of the issues associated with power through the rails, particularly for indoor operation, go away, as does the need for fitting batteries to run wirelessly.
Battery power has its place, but the downsides are considerable in comparison, therefore it will remain a niche for some time to come.

[RAF96]

The Hornby system will run from battery power, on-board or to the rails. I am not sure of the minimum voltage to keep the decoders booted but I would guess 12v would be viable for reliability and of course unless you are running legacy DCC alongside it doesn’t even have to be a DCC waveform, just simple DC voltage.
The working principle is power up the decoder by whatever power source is available and the commands are sent over the air (OTA).
Edit - to help with service track programming the stay alive doesn’t charge until the loco is moving and depending upon power source it could take a minute or so to reach full charge, then you get as much as 10 seconds over-running with sound and lights.

[Richard08]

The Hornby system will run from battery power, on-board or to the rails.

According to Hornby "their" system uses rail (or battery) power, DC or DCC, so you don't have to do anything to your layout until such time as you have converted everything ( (;-) ) when you can simply bin the controller (but not the power supply!) As it happens, 12v DC is a common power supply voltage for bluetooth controlled equipment, such as relay controllers (c. £5 to £6 for singe relay, c. £10 for four relay module), so there is automatically a vast range of peripheral controllers on hand from outside the hobby already.

If I were thinking of going DCC now, the bluetooth route would be by far the best - not least as I wouldn't have to change anything electrical at all and could still run DC engines as before, adding bluetooth to them as and when. For people with large collections (that they run often) this makes the transition to digtal way easier, there being no on/off point for switching over, and by Hornby's pricing cheaper (especially sound). Should Plutus smile and I get to buy a new engine (or finish the Warship....) I'm definitely going to give this a try, though being O gauge I'll have to get a chip from the US (I've looked into this before after stumbling across a US supplier some months ago). My only real concern would be that should comms fail the engine should stop. Also Rocrail (layout control/automation software) talks bluetooth. As may be gathered, I'm am something of fan of the bluetooth idea.

[Bigmet]

...Direct radio control of DCC decoders, using Bluetooth or even WiFi, isn’t a new idea and commercial products already exist...

Indeed, but the appeal is that this will only be a small purchase, so best made in the UK, for a try out. I want to equip a single loco, to operate into a small industrial yard with overgrown rusted over 'rails' that can barely be seen, quite possibly slots cut in a brown plastic, so no track power.

[Richard08]

...Direct radio control of DCC decoders, using Bluetooth or even WiFi, isn’t a new idea and commercial products already exist...

Indeed, but the appeal is that this will only be a small purchase, so best made in the UK, for a try out. I want to equip a single loco, to operate into a small industrial yard with overgrown rusted over 'rails' that can barely be seen, quite possibly slots cut in a brown plastic, so no track power.

That's exactly why I very nearly went RC!

[Mountain]

I can't see the advantage of the H&M7000 over conventional DCC as it relies on track power just like DCC does.

[Bigmet]

According to the information seen to date, the track power can be either DCC or DC. If this system will run locos on DC, it means it will also run them from onboard batteries.
(My ideal is a small rechargeable battery, kept topped up from track power, effectively a large 'stay alive'; and this system is designed to accept a stay 'alive'.) The use of Bluetooth overcomes the serious addressing limitations of what are now ancient hobby R/C systems for those that want wireless control, and should enable dead track operation for those that want that option and provides continuity with DCC which will aid broader market acceptance.

On paper it ticks all my boxes, and should satisfy many other folks requirements. It's now a question of how Hornby implement it; and the next thing, does it have enough impact to encourage other brands to take it up?

[BananaRepublic]

I can't see the advantage of the H&M7000 over conventional DCC as it relies on track power just like DCC does.

Hornby’s HM DCC not only sends the control signals directly to the decoders by a wireless Bluetooth connection, it replaces the conventional DCC command station and booster, that are normally needed to generate and transmit DCC signals out via the track.
Instead of that hardware, the control system is now just a free app, running on a smartphone or tablet.

If you’re starting out or converting to DCC, there’s no longer a need to spend £200 to £500 on a DCC system, when you can use a free app, running on your phone or iPad.

Motive power need only be a fixed voltage 15v power supply of suitable amperage rating, powering the track.
Hornby are selling a 15v 4 amp power supply suitable for the job, although cheaper ones of the same rating are readily available.

Of course, the decoders will run on DCC power as well, so you can either run both HM DCC locos and conventional DCC together at the same time, on the same track, or just use your old DCC system to provide track power for a completely HM7000 equipped loco fleet.
DC controllers turned up to full power can also be used to supply track power, but with several caveats.

[Mountain]

Sad to admit but that is another "Turn off" for me. I want a physical hand controller with a knob and a switch. Using ones tablet or phone or a PC has been around in DCC for a long time but I never wanted to do that at all as to me it is the opposite to where I want my side of the hobby to go. Is the sameas modern cars. If it has a large computerized sreen display instead of the traditional dials I will not use it as I find it far too distracting and "False". Had cars in the past with their futureistic displays and parted with them as it is something I don't want to have.
I like the general idea Hornby have with the H&M 7000 and the thought that one can get ones trains going with little financial outlay (If one already has a smart phone or PC type device (Which I have (Actually is my Mums as mine refuses to charge)), but I would want a simple plug in hand controller (Or wireless version) somewhere in the system as for me, the pleasure is in operating with a physical rotary hand knob and if possible, a toggle switch (If needed) or two, though slide switches are ok. I hate the touch screen idea even though this tablet is a touch screen and it is ok. I just don't like the idea of marrying the two as trains to me is an escape... So I want to "Get away from" the day to day life of everything else around me.

For me the ideal form of train control I found was a hand held physical device one can use without looking at it such as the Gaugemaster HH. I know it is DC, but I found such a device (When I last had one) to be perfect if one sets ones layout up insuch a way that one simply plugs in the lead into the socket where one needs to control the right track sections and that is it! One speed knob, one direction switch and one has full control while ones eyes are entirely on the model train one is driving! I honestly found this the easiest way!
Now if Hornby can build some sort of simple physical hand controller or two that can plug into ones computerized device so once a locomotive is selected on the computer device and then one has full control on the physical hand controller, they will surely be onto a winner! But for me, with all control being on a computerized flat screen device I don't want it. I love the theory of what it can do, but I do not want it to controlmy trains as I want a physical knob for speed control and a physical switch for direction (Or just the one knob that does both with is better for shunting) which ideally can fit in ones hand or if not, can be built into a control panel.
Others may love the computer device idea. Shame Hornby can't do both using this technology so one can choose which option one likes to use?

[End2end]

One has to ponder, why does everything need to connect to a mobile phone these days?.
I don't own one (and certainly don't want one) so all this mobile phonication is irrelevant to me, and to any owner with a flat phone battery.

Thanks
End2end